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Integral Politics: Points from a View

Last post 08-03-2006, 6:03 PM by jtk. 45 replies.
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  •  07-14-2006, 12:25 PM 1429

    Integral Politics: Points from a View

    Hi Everyone,

    I am sure that we are all keeping up with current events.... and as such I would like to see if there any "taker's" on a political thread?

    My own interest is to present actual foreign and domestic policy "positions/perspectives" on specific issues (of which I will compile a number - if there is some real interest) that can be analyzed by those with a more theoretical bent than myself, to see how they fit or coincide within an AQAL framework.

    I was thinking last night about our developing community here at I-I and the apparent perspectives and points of view demonstrated thus far in our continuing dialogue over the subjects presented to date. And as I have already stated in some of my posts and read in some of your posts, I/We are beginning to "see" and "find" our voices....and as such I have asked myself - "What am I truly passionate about"? What areas of this integral world and landscape do I want to work in? What/where are my strengths and weaknesses?

    Because even though an "Integral" perspective obviously involves it "ALL" and we will all be versed in the all quadrant/all lines approach as a conceptual framework - "I" will not tend to do it ALL, and will quite "naturally" find myself drawn towards the quadrants and lines I am most interested, experienced, and therefore, "evolved" in... What does this have to do with politics? -  EVERYTHING!  -  Since politics is about our RELATIONHIP with/to one another and the world we create and live in.... 

    So.... I want us to begin a discussion of real world conditions created by real world actions/in-actions, create a "plat-form" relative to specific laws/policys whereby these conditions are enacted, and analyze this "plat-form" to see how it conforms to AQAL....

    Any interest?

    Best Regards,

    Justin 

     


    The First And Foremost Wonder in This World Is the Thought, "I Am Different From God!" There Is No Greater Wonder Than This.

    Ramana Marharshi
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  •  07-14-2006, 1:18 PM 1435 in reply to 1429

    • slbrown is not online. Last active: 08-24-2006, 1:09 PM slbrown
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    Re: "Integral" Politics Anyone?

    Hi Justin,

    I have an interest in this thread. I currently work at the local government level in a small town and have the idea that I'd like to run for office some day at the state level. One of the questions I ask myself is: given the current political climate and all the games ( for lack of a better term) that seem to dominate the world of politics, how does one approach it integrally, manage to operate from 2nd tier and actual get elected or get anything done without being pulled down, so to speak, by the more dominate 1st tier.

    Because even though an "Integral" perspective obviously involves it "ALL" and we will all be versed in the all quadrant/all lines approach as a conceptual framework - "I" will not tend to do it ALL, and will quite "naturally" find myself drawn towards the quadrants and lines I am most "evolved" in.

    Ditto for me - thats why exploring it together will help to broaden our map!

    Thanks for introducing the thread and I look forward to jumping in on the discusion as I can.

    Peace,
    Sue


    And right there was everything I knew and I could not say what that was. - Natalie Goldberg
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  •  07-14-2006, 2:13 PM 1438 in reply to 1435

    Re: Integra Politics: Points From A View

    Hi Sue,

    Great! I wish you success if you do run for state office - and who knows I may be interested in assisting in writing some of your speeches and clarifying positions, if I'm worthy....Smile [:)]

    "how does one approach it integrally, manage to operate from 2nd tier and actual get elected or get anything done without being pulled down, so to speak, by the more dominate 1st tier".

    I actually think that the "world" is ready for an intelligent presentation of issues based on real world analysis and multi-leveled dialogue.... And "Integral is as Integral does" .... What I mean is that if one is ACTUALLY responding to the issues/problems at hand from a 2nd/3rd tier perspective then such response will begin to "activate" this morphogenetic field in which we all live... And I don't mean to get to "heady" about this assertion, but I really see this as a present potential - not "new age tripe"....

    I remember watching Martin Luther King's "I have a Dream" speech, and I have seen it many times since.... And that was not only Martin Luther King speaking, and I think you understand what I mean by this.... That is a part of what I mean by the reference to the "M - Field"....

    I think/feel that people are actually ready for REAL CHANGE.... They are absolutely STARVING for REAL FOOD - something they can atually get their teeth into - and they will know it when they "taste" it - they will know it when they "hear" it - they will know it when they "see" it - they will know it when they "feel" it.... - not necessarily presented in a prioritized order!

    So.... In answer to the above question: ABOVE ALL TO THINE OWN SELF BE INTEGRAL - and it follows as....

    Best Regards,

    Justin

     



     


    The First And Foremost Wonder in This World Is the Thought, "I Am Different From God!" There Is No Greater Wonder Than This.

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  •  07-14-2006, 2:17 PM 1440 in reply to 1429

    • geomo is not online. Last active: 08-23-2006, 10:20 AM geomo
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    Re: Integral Politics Anyone?

    Hi Justin.

    I share your passion for Integral Politics.  Might I suggest taking this thread to the Integral Naked forum, as it doesn't necessarily resonate with the ISC content.  Of course, I recognize my own spiritual path involves a level of political awareness, so in that context, I understand how a political discussion can inform a spiritual path.

    OK, technicalities aside, here's what I've been recently considering that is in line with your desire to create a "plat-form."  What if.....the Constitutional Convention were held today.  I get this idea from Stephen Dinan.  A thread was posted on the IN forum that pointed to Dinan's work.  His politics, as he admits, lean to the left.  But there is a definitely integrally informed flavor to his thoughts.  The Constitutional Convention idea, if I remember correctly, is something that he discussed in one of his articles.  I imagine a DaVinci Code type of thriller in which the characters are contemporary thinkers, working in secret as the process necessarily implies a level of treason as it did for the original framers of the Constitution.  Perhaps we could play a game in a thread (most likely on the IN forum, for reasons posted above) where we develop a "plat-form," or in my model, we create an updated Constitution that involves an integral philosophy and incorporates what the James Madison, et.al. could not have foreseen when the wrote the original: technological advances, shifting moral and ethical standards, globalization, etc.

    Could be a fun project.

    Peace

    Keith


    Peace. It does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart. -unknown
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  •  07-14-2006, 3:00 PM 1441 in reply to 1440

    Re: Integral Politics: Points From A View

    Hi Keith,

    First, I would be interested in a "ruling" from I-I regarding your comments - Is "politics" outside the realm of discussion for I-I/ISC? So if anyone is "listening" out there?....

    Second, "Of course, I recognize my own spiritual path involves a level of political awareness, so in that context, I understand how a political discussion can inform a spiritual path." And vice/versa....

    Third, Cool!!! I love the idea of an Integral constitutional convention - I study the constitution on a regular basis and would be very interested in your proposal, and thanks for the link....

    Best Regards,

    Justin

     


    The First And Foremost Wonder in This World Is the Thought, "I Am Different From God!" There Is No Greater Wonder Than This.

    Ramana Marharshi
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  •  07-15-2006, 8:31 AM 1464 in reply to 1441

    • perera is not online. Last active: 08-24-2006, 1:15 AM perera
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    Re: Integral Politics Anyone?

    Hi Keith,

    I am not II Wink [;)] but as a crew member of ISC, i am watching how these forums are developing with great excitement. I only wish i had more time to join in Sad [:(]

    As for a political thread developing here, yes, i confess, i had some initial questioning but the reality is that there is nothing in the world that spirit cannot inform or provide a context from which it can truly arise.  Gandhi ji, Martin Luther King, jr, Ticht Naht Hahn, Desmond Tutu, Nelson Mandela, Louis Farrakhan or even Jesus and Bob Marley, for that matter (wherever any one of them may have been or are in altitude), are all amongst many more, spiritual models of social action. Indeed, I cannot imagine a truly second tier/integral politics without spirituality/inner realities being of even minimal consideration. I am sure most of us here have already heard by now of Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, and several other current political personalities that supposedly integrally-aware.  On an Integral Naked clip on Integral Politics, Ken explains how Gauthama Buddha might have been one of the first republicans and well as Democrats.

    So, as for developing a political thread here on ISC, the relevance exists for sure….The only reminder is that we follow the Road Rules and that we truly manifest, inquire from, and bring our Highest as we know.  Let us attempt, if at all possible, to truly make Sprit the context for this thread.

    Good Luck!

     


    Nomali @ ISC

    ~Save the Earth- it's the only planet with Chocolate!

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  •  07-15-2006, 9:51 AM 1466 in reply to 1464

    Re: Integral Politics: Points From A View

    Hi Nomali,

    I just have a few minutes this morning, but I wanted to acknowledge your reply and to futher reply to Keith.... So.... Thank you for your response this morning and I do understand and appreciate all of your comments....

    Hi Keith,

    After reviewing the entire thread thus far - I completely agree with you on moving the "Constitutional Convention" aspect you mentioned to IN, and keeping any dialogue here more consciously focused - so to speak.... 

    Best Regards to ALL,

    Justin

     


    The First And Foremost Wonder in This World Is the Thought, "I Am Different From God!" There Is No Greater Wonder Than This.

    Ramana Marharshi
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  •  07-15-2006, 10:51 AM 1468 in reply to 1429

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    Re: Integral Politics Anyone?

    From my recent experience with my own consciousness unfolding, and my grasp of the interconectedness of all things, I can say that politics is, by far, a subject tantamount for the spiritually minded to discuss.  It would be a tremendous disservice to the spirit (which is affected by the imbalance and abuses of power in the political sphere) for those engaged in Integral theory to limit any subject matter to one sphere or mode of presentation.  I have experienced a great burden to my psyche in regards to the state of political affairs and how those engaged in public policy have done so at the behest of unethical materialism.  The form of materialism as it stands today is unsustainable.  I sense a Malthusian catastrophe in the making and a united front of spiritual leadership is a VALUEABLE front to integrate into the social dynamic to address/redress balance.  We have got to inform those in the highest echelons of material wealth that it is not in their best interests either to continue the status quo.  I look forward to the discussion.Angel [A]

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  •  07-15-2006, 9:32 PM 1476 in reply to 1429

    Re: Integral Politics Anyone?

    Justin et al...

    I too would be interested in this line of inquiry. What about it being in the I-I general forum instead of here? And if there is a I-N forum for creating a new constitutional congress, can you let me know where to find it. I get a bit overwhelmed over there in the I-N forums....

    But like you all already said, I believe that my spiritual life completely informs my political life, and actually makes me feel more obliged to be politically active. Rabbi Michael Lerner has an interesting take on the problems that arise when we actually separate our spirituality with our politics. He completely stands for separation of church and state, but wants the left to start to acknowledge that part of the reason they have lost so many to the republicans is because they are the only ones acknowledging a spiritual aspect to people. The book is called "The Left Hand of God."

    Blessings,
    Kelly
    It's ALL soul. Junior Wells
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  •  07-16-2006, 2:16 AM 1482 in reply to 1476

    Re: Integral Politics: Points From a View

    Hi Kelly and Everyone else out there....

    First, it's great you "showed up".... As far as the location, I believe we are in "General Discussion" now, but we can move this thread -  which I believe will get more lengthy with more participants over time, anywhere....

    Now onto some further comments regarding "The left Hand of God" - and by this reference I am not referring to the book (which I have not read - but now will) but rather to the notion that there is any separation at all between "politics" and "religion" or "politics" and "sprituality". But probably the first thing we should do is clarify definitions and meaning of terms....Which we can do as we continue our discussions....

    I like the title of the book, for it immediately conveys the "truth".... At least from ONE  perspective -there is no separation between "Politics" and "Spirituality" or with anything else for that matter...But this does not imply or mean that we do not discriminate between the Relative and Absolute...  

    Since human beings have arisen on this planet it has never been a question of whether choices will be made, but only a question of which choices will be made.... Are some choices "better" than others? Are some actions more beneficial to the "whole" than others? Are there more intelligent ways of handling conflict? Can an "enlightented" mind provide greater insight into the appropriate legislation and enactment of Laws to foster and protect the growth, rather than the slow withering destruction of Humanity?

    I look forward to particpation in this political forum of the SPIRIT.... I actually feel WE can and do make a difference even as we simply engage one another in our search - not for temporary "solutions" but rather for long term strategies and policies that are the offspring of "Integral Thought"....

    I was thinking today about the first actual thread to pursue.... I thought I would like to start with "a big picture" perspective that directly relates to the present conditions in the Middle East. But I am open to discuss anything anyone else would like to pursue....

    Best Regards to ALL,

    Justin  


    The First And Foremost Wonder in This World Is the Thought, "I Am Different From God!" There Is No Greater Wonder Than This.

    Ramana Marharshi
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  •  07-17-2006, 7:49 AM 1516 in reply to 1482

    • geomo is not online. Last active: 08-23-2006, 10:20 AM geomo
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    Re: Integral Politics Anyone?

    OK, so this forum won't be a cocktail party, and we can talk about religion and politics all we want;-)

    Maybe that's why I don't like cocktail parties all that much....all the fun topics aren't allowed;-)

    Peace.

    Keith


    Peace. It does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart. -unknown
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  •  07-17-2006, 2:47 PM 1527 in reply to 1516

    Re: Integral Politics Anyone?

    Hi guys,

    It's great to see this thread starting. I'm quite juiced.

    I think a good place for it would be the I-I General Community Forums. I can arrange to actually pick up this thread as is and move it there, if I get the go ahead from a few of you.

    I want to throw in the obligatory levels and lines warning. Spirituality and Politics definitely inform one another, and should be performed with an awareness of those influences. But it's important that we remember - you can be very well developed in one and poorly developed in another. I'd differentiate even further, and point out that political savvy can arise seperately from integral, post-conventional ideals, and both of these from spiritual awareness. So it's great that we're having this conversation, but let's tread carefully.

    I'm curious, even, what an Integral political stance on any issue would consist of. Are we talking about proposed legislation, which might be inherently mired in a conventional moral/political view? Or new ways of framing debate? New cultural initiatives? All three and more? It seems to me that the current constitution would do just fine if America (or the world) were populated only by integral people, but of course that isn't and never will be possible. So I guess this constitutional convention has to be aimed at describing a legal framework in which people of different types at different altitudes on different lines could constructively coexist. But a stance on the middle east?

    Whenever I get into political conversations, I'm curious about what level of power we're willing to make a decision on, if that makes any sense. Are we trying to decide what the president should do? What the Israeli government should do? What we should do? Or is it not an issue of what anyone should do, but just a better understanding of what's really going on, in various quadrants, on various levels, etc?

    Anyway, let's stop talking about talking and start talking!

    Yotam

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  •  07-17-2006, 4:54 PM 1532 in reply to 1527

    Re: Integral Politics: Points From A View

    Hi Yotam,

    As far as I am concerned this thread/discussion may be placed wherever the consensus of those at I-I responsible for such matters/decisions may deem appropriate.... I also find it interesting that caution seems to be emphasized when the subject of politics is being broached....

    All of the questions/comments that you enumerated are open for discussion.... And "political savy" can arise in a myriad of contexts - if by "political savy" you mean achieving ones own vision(s)/goal(s) or those of ones "party"....

    There is some truth to your comment regarding the present U.S.Constitution - but consider how many amendents have been added since it's original inception....Also consider the fact that future potential amendments are being bandied about regarding issues that the original founders could not have imagined since they did not yet exist...

    I suggested the Middle East because of the virtually "continuous" conflict - overt and covert.... But the Middle East is just one example of what we as human beings must "deal" with from a "higher" perspective if we expect to actually see any real changes in how these matters are dealt with...."A stance" implies rigidity - which is not what I am suggesting....

    In regards to your last paragraph about "decisions" - What I am suggesting is a conversation that could actually explore as many possibilities as our minds allow since the "board" appears so small but contains an almost infinite number of potentials based on the present configuation of the "pieces"....

    But ultimately - just like Arjuna, we must make DECISIONS and JUDGEMENTS, as we ALREADY do every single moment of every single day....Afterall, even inaction is an action and no decision is still a decision and that decision just leaves the "matter" as it was....  

    Do I sound like a "Politician"? Wink [;)]

    Take Care Yotam - And Best Regards to ALL,

    Justin

     


    The First And Foremost Wonder in This World Is the Thought, "I Am Different From God!" There Is No Greater Wonder Than This.

    Ramana Marharshi
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  •  07-17-2006, 6:31 PM 1535 in reply to 1476

    • maryw is online. Last active: 08-24-2006, 11:16 PM maryw
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    Re: Integral Politics Anyone?

    polymind:
    Rabbi Michael Lerner has an interesting take on the problems that arise when we actually separate our spirituality with our politics.

    Hi everyone.

    Just wanted to mention that Lerner and his Tikkun community have spearheaded a Network of Spiritual Progressives that people might be interested in checking out. I was at NSP's first conference in Berkeley in 2005, which was wonderful.

    Mary


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  •  07-17-2006, 7:24 PM 1539 in reply to 1535

    Re: Integral Politics: Points From A View

    Thanks so much for the link Mary....

    Best Regards,

    Justin


    The First And Foremost Wonder in This World Is the Thought, "I Am Different From God!" There Is No Greater Wonder Than This.

    Ramana Marharshi
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