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For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

Last post 1 hour, 20 minutes ago by tiki. 145 replies.
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  •  03-12-2007, 9:16 AM 20511 in reply to 20502

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Vintage Helen. You folks are witnessing a master at work, though many of you think that's hyperbole or sarcasm. It isn't.

    Ok, so...update for those who didn't listen to the nearly 5-hour conference call on ISC, for chapter 7 of Integral Spirituality. Ken specifically spoke with me about the forums, after we'd discussed my questions about "The Miracle of We."

    I found him sincerely apologetic about what's happened, and astonishingly heart-open. Now I know why people have such tremendous difficulty saying "no" to this man! (But I came pretty close.)

    He mentioned Nomali and her enormous contribution to the forums, which went a long, long way towards healing for me. That validation was very important. He said there would be discussion this week about how I-I would be moving forward with the various forums, and I look forward to that. He asked me, so sweetly, to stay. Gulp!

    I said, with some emotional difficulty, that for me to continue in the IN forum in particular, was like going back to an old school from which I'd graduated. It's wonderful to visit here, and I very much want it to succeed, but I don't think it's appropriate to stay. I also don't want to be in the way, which is quite likely, given all this baggage. I told Ken I want to try to keep my lower motivations out of the way and do what's best for Integral. I don't know what that is yet. It may be that I get involved in different forums when they are created here at I-I, or continue on at I-I+*zaadz, or some as yet unseen path. If there is a way for me to contribute constructively here, I will. Again, I don't want to be in the way. That's not false humility, that's just pragmatism.

    I'm sending all of my prayers and metta to Integral Institute this week. The world (or at least those on the cutting edge) is watching, and I am pulling mightily for you guys. Hallie, I know you will look back on this and be incredibly grateful. Hang in there. You're doing important work.

    And deep bow to you, Ken Wilber. You are my most beloved Teacher.

    Namaste,
    Liz

    http://pods.zaadz.com/ii
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  •  03-12-2007, 3:39 PM 20535 in reply to 20511

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this


    hi liz,

    i think this is a tough one for a number of us. i trust ken, so if he's asked you to stay, he must consider it important--not just for him or i-i--but for you and others that you do so.

    of course, i'm alot older and it's easier for me to be patient--plus i don't know what the hell is going on: not a good time to be taking any decisive action.

    best wishes,

    ralph
    peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers
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  •  03-12-2007, 5:25 PM 20537 in reply to 20535

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Thanks, Ralph.

    Liz

    http://pods.zaadz.com/ii
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  •  03-13-2007, 6:14 AM 20558 in reply to 20537

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Ken said softly "stay". Indeed.

    Music [8]

    I'm not into  post- sending in-box messages , so will say hi-iya  -'and by the way' - to you  Liz in-here OK?

    So, you think you're special or something? That you are the one mortal who not supposed to have any ego-driven desires? And now, bec. of the "baggage" , you don't want to be in the way ?. Well, guess what? you now have arrived at the perfect point on your spiritual journey where your soul, your conscience is clearly  communicating that  the sting of feeling like a 'failure' sucks. Which is a good thing, right? . . . 'I have conscience and this is my souls way of nudging me in the direction where shame, guilt and fear of failure has no footing.' . . . .To think I don't want to be burden-driven Responsibilitist is not the same as knowing 'this is a healthy reminder from my soul  with a wink  : : 'first we mess up  , then we clean up' with gratitude for lesson learned , no? 

     

     

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  •  03-13-2007, 2:32 PM 20580 in reply to 20511

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Liz:  How do you know that Hallie is going to look back and be incredibly grateful.

    "You"statements can be offensive.   I know, I am not brave enough or the right color or whateve to be offensive yet.   I do not look forward to that.

    .   An upset is usually a setup and a Setup is usually an Upset.

    On the other hand, maybe you are going to be one of the really bad boys like Andrew.  In the last chapter of Eye of the Spirit, Ken names different ways we manifest our greatness.  The names are Budhist and he says that is not important.

    I have learned a lot from you, Liz.  and on some level, I resonate with what you feel is your way of manifesting. without that Shadow lurking. and I sure nuf did some of the things you did not like.  even if that was not your main point.  And  I hope we all will be in your prayers.   I wish that you had ask us what we thought.  One small example,  I have Type Two Diabetes and sometimes, I am in a cloud when I write

    and pay for it later all by myself without anyone jumping on me.  And sometimes, I do it because I am careless and not taking my time.   Namaste   Pattye

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  •  03-13-2007, 2:51 PM 20581 in reply to 20580

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Pattye, I don't know why you think any of what I said is about you. That's for you to figure out. It's not my stuff and I won't own it. Also, please let whatever is between me and Hallie be between us. If she is offended by anything I say, she's capable of telling me.

    I haven't asked what anyone else thought, about what? It would be helpful if you would quote what I've said so I can respond cogently.

    Your post reads to me like you've been letting something fester and build, and now that you're speaking out, I haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and I don't know you well enough to interpolate from what you've said.

    Yeah, the more I think about this, the less a response from me to you is really informed. Let me know what you're getting at, with specifics, if you'd like me to respond.

    I would never claim to be any kind of spiritual teacher or guru, in any other way than being a part of a sangha or other such community where people have entered into an agreement to help each other awaken. I am not at that level, by far.

    Maybe I'm being obtuse and this will all make sense once I let it sit for awhile.

    Liz

    http://pods.zaadz.com/ii
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  •  03-13-2007, 7:59 PM 20593 in reply to 20558

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Helen,

    It does seem like your shadow is coming out to play, dear.  I see mine is too.   Your post was quite revealing.  Continue on--I'm sure you will.

    Namaste (with effort),

    Chris


    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it
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  •  03-13-2007, 8:31 PM 20594 in reply to 20581

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Dear Liz:  I really  have not thought you were talking about me at any time.  I am also not taking up for Hallie.  I just put myself in her shoes or anyone else and wonder.

    I am curious about exactly what I ask you about for myself and thinking that others might benefit from that also.  And I do have problems with "you statements" about how others feel, think, and are and will be.  But it starts with me wondering how you could know what is going to happen.

    No you don't have to explain yourself to me and that is fine.  Choice is one of the rights to be treasured in my opinion.  I don't think you are being obtuse even tho you were only wondering that for yourself.    I am torn about my statement of wondering why you never ask what anyone thought or if they wanted to contribute to something that might be missing.   Or rather how others were feeling.  Just for yourself because I always knew I could speak up at anytime.  It was just very very sad at times . I do wish you well and believe it when I read about the people who think of you so well

    as a truly loving,,kind person.  I am leaving out a very tiny tiny piece and I will share it with you later.  It has to do with wondering how you are taking care of yourself

    and something that I intuit.  It could be projection so I want to take a little time.

    Namaste  Pattye

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  •  03-14-2007, 8:43 AM 20604 in reply to 20594

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Chris me'dear,  your strained / forced 'Namaste' is waaay couthBig Smile [:D]

    Now, if Master wanted to speak , he would say - WOTEVER! wotever tickles our Collective interior  fancy  is exactly right....up to a point , bec. as soon as we know it's been all a shadow-play  , we can jump out of it and be all purrrrrrrness and light Wink [;)]

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  •  03-14-2007, 8:48 AM 20605 in reply to 20594

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Hi,

    I was wondering what outcome each person involved here would like to see happen at this point...

    Best,
    Joanne


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  •  1 hour, 20 minutes ago 20661 in reply to 20605

    Re: For anyone who still wishes for transparency at I-I: they don't want you to see this

    Good question, Joanne

    I haven't been reading regularly, so only came across this when it was already pages long. I have kept an eye over the past few days, but felt disinclined to weigh in, mainly because I have had this conversation so many times before. I have been so unparticipative here I have considered terminating my membership, the reason I keep it is to support I-I in whatever small way I can, I know they need the income from all these subscriptions and numbers must have fallen considerably.

     

    To see what this forum was like at its best, look to version 1. The exchanges, level of engagement, building of trust and sharing and valuing experiences was like nothing I have seen anywhere-ever.

    Phase 2 started with an overnight change in software, before it ws ready. Mods were introduced in ways that should never have happened..the early threads there argue the case for all the views fully and I don't intend to repeat them here.

    Every single time there has een a problem, I-I has been unresponsive or dealt with the situation badly.

    There is no-one there who understands the we-space as it exists here. IT's almost like we have to trust the good intentions and honest hearts of everyone at I-I (which I probably do), and therefore excuse the incompetence (which I don't, because it harms all of us)

    This forum was about learning, but learning in relationship with others. We all brought different things to the party, but our understanding grew from dialogue.One of the amazing things about version 1 was the back channel, which is the bit probably I-I was never aware of. PMs used to flag in oop up boxes, so if a message came in when you were on line, you could see it, and choose whether to respond. This one to one, in my view, was crucial to the depth that crept into the friendships here-we were able to be more open and unguarded away from the public forum and that allowed us to sort out thoughts and bring them back.

    It is probably also where the `tone` of much of the communication came from too. In a world where you can't see the twinkle in someone's eye or hear a chuckle, that style denotes familiarity. The range can be huge. The new mod's lack of grasp of this will prevent her being effective. This isn't about flirting...or sarcasm........or being witty, it's about establishing and maintaining relationship.

    The other software feature we lost was the ability to send PMs to multiple people, ie there could be a discussion involving a smaller group about something they wanted to explore, or sometimes people would want to share some personal news with a few friends, but not necessarily make an announcement to the whole forum and the world at large, which is effectively who you are talking to here.

    Under construction scare of timing out

    Damn, had it almot done and lost it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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