Hey Ralph,

Yes, there do seem to be some differences between Europe and America, though I think more research is definitely needed before coming to any conclusions.

I've thought for a long time that some European countries have come further than most other countries in the world when it comes to levels of consciousness, for example Holland and Sweden that have both been green for a long time and are now finally pushing into teal (especially Holland). I wouldn't have thought though that Britain was so far ahead of the US (if indeed they are), but then again my knowledge of Britain is probably more limited than what I know about the US. The surprising figures to me are the higher levels. I thought the US would be doing very well here... That the US has more amber, etc than Europe comes as no suprise though.

I guess I-I will just have to relocate once and for all.
Malmö is a nice place


Pelle

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http://pelle.zaadz.com/

I think you're right, we're not pushing Teal culturally yet here in Britain, but then again, we have had Tony for 10 years, whos pretty teal in many repects.  He's definitely ushered things along. 

One big issue that we have here is our weird class-system - huge areas of relative poverty.  Sweden and Holland don't have that to nearly the same extend I don't think.  Rather a drain on resources...bloody green socialists ;)

I think there are some graphs in ToE comparing Spiral Dynamics stats in the US and Europe also...shows a similar trend.

Ewan

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www.ukinext.com

hi pelle and ewan,

pelle:

Yes, there do seem to be some differences between Europe and America, though I think more research is definitely needed before coming to any conclusions.

of course, the most striking differences, at least i used to think, are surface features rather than deep features. for example,the u.s. has a large immigrant population, which evidently bolsters the percentage at stages 3/4 and 4, but for it to be above 80%, with well less than 10% above it for managerial staff is difficult for me to comprehend. here in portland it's true that orange still rules, but it's had to be much more accommodating to green than those statistics would suggest.

of course, what do we mean by green? KW has already pointed out the watermelon version that's infected with boomeritis. i also feel we have an exotic variety here who're amber/blue inside and couldn't possibly score a stage 5 on her test.

I guess I-I will just have to relocate once and for all. Malmö is a nice place.

sorry, pelle, we usans don't take kindly to having to learn another language, especially one with umlauts!

ewan, i heard one british pundit characterize cameron as green, and predict he's liable to upend gordon brown for the PMship within a year!? could it be that the likes of him and schwarzenegger in caleefornia and harper in canada are aiming to bring a healthy green to conservative politics?

ralph

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Hi Ralph

Cameron is certainly hot on environmental issues (a new angle for the Conservative party), but I wouldn't say he was especially representing green meme values politically.

I think its quite tricky to asses the CoG of the British political leaders at the moment.  Blair has changed how politics works here fundamentally.  Wheras before, the Conservatives would basically focus on economic factors - private commerce, low taxes, and Labour would focus on public services, schools, hospitals, unemployment; Blair's more interated approach means any party wanting to be taken seriously has to cover the whole spectrum, its not one or the other anymore.

I have no doubt Blair was Intgeral in many ways, I suspect Cameron is to some extent too, though as I said, its so hard to tell where they're at 'personally', because they're so skilled (and have to be) at advocating whats politically appropriate, rather than what they ideologically belive in (an integral perspective if ever there was one).

Cameron is behind Brown in the opinion polls at the moment, dosn't seem to be any sign of a turn around at the moment, but you never can tell!  Cameron drew a lot of interest when he got the leadership, but he seems to have sunk a bit more recently - especially with the whole hand over of power thing recently!

Ewan

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www.ukinext.com

ralphweidner:

I guess I-I will just have to relocate once and for all. Malmö is a nice place.

sorry, pelle, we usans don't take kindly to having to learn another language, especially one with umlauts!

We will conquer the world using umlauts! He he, seriously it can make a grown man cry if you're not a native speaker.



Ewan: I agree with your assessment of politicians, I see that happening in Sweden too. Nobody can get away with only conservative or liberal policies any more, they all need to address both areas to succeed - even though most of them are still orange or green value-wise, with some of them probably pushing into teal cognitively.


Pelle

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http://pelle.zaadz.com/

I took the test earlier this year.  (No, I will not reveal my score)  The results were eye opening and after digesting them over the last six or so months, I gotta say they hold up pretty well.  I wish I had more resources so I could track myself over time and see how long it takes to move up the spiral, but that's a bit obsessive.  One really neat feature is that each response to question is given a level and then the levels are aggregated. 

It is also postioned as a Leadership Development Profile.  So one must be careful to distinguish whether it represents a line in itself or an estimate of center of gravity.  Personally, I think it's awful close to a CoG indicator.  I'd like to hear other takes on that question.

 

Brian

ewan and pelle, it's really good to hear from you guys. you provide a perspective that, needless to say, we don't typically get in the u.s.

i'm glad to see that blair intends to remain politically active. i feel it's crucial that the u.s. get back to working more with europe on global concerns, and he's a big help in this regard.

ralph

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hi brian,

interesting question. my understanding (see also elliott jaques) is that c.o.g. is a key criterion for what level in an organization one would be most suitable to be working at. of course, in our narcissistic u.s. we are all billed as leaders, even if we're at level 3, say.

ralph

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James,

It seems a long time since we have news from you.  Did I read well all the new posts or missed one of you?  I find this thread so important that I'd like we continue.  How to open new doors if we are not able to even think at them?  Maybe Tim who gave us the content of the "Ironist" could speak us about that he know?  You are so engaged in this site, for a so long time, maybe you have some clues.  Or Mark, with whom I shared lately?  Your posts give me a lot to ponder. 

James said : ... in my experience, we don't really control directly the 'way' we think ...

Lately, Mark in Color thread spoke of Me/We

There is a link between both it seems. 

Couldn't we, all together, work on that?

 

Martine