Robb and all,

     I really don't think the objections stated here are objections to community model which calls forth more authenticity and depth or a double standard of transparency.  I do believe they point to certain aspects of the technological (and perhaps business) models that co-arose with the "orange" community model that make the risk/reward proposition questionable.

      I have no problem telling you and the members here my name, and I don't particularly relish an exchange with  someone  ID'ed as wilberluver.  I do have problems telling my name (and assoicated thoughts, shadows and mistakes) to Google, Yahoo, web crawlers in general and a myriad of strangers who have not crossed some barrier that signifies that they are invested in exploring Integral.

      In absence of any reports otherwise, my assumption has been that the forums in the Portal will be pay to post, but anybody can read.  This model has some nifty advantages in that folks curious but not ready to pay a subscription can see what people are talking about and (on a good day) the quality of the people that hang out here.  I do think the drawbacks of this tech/business model do put significant barriers to deeper communion as outlined extensively by many on this thread.  I have been fortunate to attend in person a few I-I events; they were exquisite!  However, had those events been held in the middle of the Superdome(with a 100 participants in the center of the field and a stadium full of spectators), I don't think my willingness to stretch myself in mind, body and spirit would have been near that of what I had in the intimate setting in which they were held.

     So, in a brainstorming mode (that is, I don't know if it is possible and have not thought through all the consequences), I do believe most objections to real name use could be overcome (and more importantly deeper communion would be encouraged) if it was possible for me, as the poster to set the audience that could see that post.  Perhaps levels might be something like anybody, members only, my circle and my inner circle.  For the first cut, reponses would only be set in the poster's trust circle and I would not disable quoting or the like; as in the real world, secrets leak and trust is adjusted accordingly. I am sure there exists a universe of experts who have  better thought out solutions that accomplishes the idea.

     I mentioned it would statisfy most objections.  I do think that people who suffer from the spotlight of media attention, people that live under oppressive regimes and people at risk for stalking and harassment should have the ability and even be encouraged to take psuedonyms.

    I do believe the members already here do thirst for deeper authenticity, and there is a need to upgrade the community container in order to facilitate that depth.

 

Brian

In reply to the two points presented by Robb.

Dear Robb,

I understand your goal of getting everyone naked in the Integral hot tub.  I too share this goal.  But in my experience, the best way to achieve this isn't to require guests to show up naked.  Start with some strong but fruity drinks.  Some of us only require one.  Some take three or four.  Once everyone sees how much fun we're all having, they'll hop in too at a pace that feels natural to them as individuals.   

The thing I would try to socially engineer about this party (forum) is not mechanical or structural, it's that the hosts are so busy making drinks that the guests are all on their own.  We have a million conversations going about mortgage rates and gas prices and not much of it is Integral.  The forums should be like a vortex that pulls everyone in from the from the yard and deck into the living room where the music is blaring and Ken Wilber is shaking his groove thing.

The current party is like a bunch of strangers trying to figure out how they each connect to the host.  Sticking name tags on everone is a poor substitute for having a friendly and attentive host who makes introductions and keeps those fruity drinks flowing.

Enough talk, Let's get this party started!

 

---

Peace & Prosperity

Paul Williams
http://Paul.ikarma.com

Paul:   I have pictues in my head when I read and that was quite a movie!!  LOL Big Time. 

And Brian,  I wish I had thought of  "wilberluver"  That would have been such fun trying to sign up for Integral and have it go all the way to Robb for a decision since I was going to fight for my life to have freedom  of speech  er name.   LOL  AGAIN.

Pattye

Paul:   I have pictues in my head when I read and that was quite a movie!!  LOL Big Time. 

And Brian,  I wish I had thought of  "wilberluver"  That would have been such fun trying to sign up for Integral and have it go all the way to Robb for a decision since I was going to fight for my life to have freedom  of speech  er name.   LOL  AGAIN.

Pattye

Hi Pattye (fellow Floridian),

What bad is that I was responding to a post by Robb that I had already responded to.  This "real name" discussion is taking place on three different forums and six different threads.  Very confusing! 

I guess this shows that "even with the best of maps, it's still pretty easy to get lost sometimes."

LOL  See how many places you can use that line around here!

---

Peace & Prosperity

Paul Williams
http://Paul.ikarma.com

hi again, brian,

i'm not sure what to say without engaging in labeling, but isn't it ironic that all of you expressing your objections to real name identification on this and the Integral Portal thread have identified yourselves by what appear to be real names? things are not always what they appear to be. (admittedly, i supposed edison to be a real name, until you fully identified yourself as brian turner; and likewise with mascha, for example.)

moreover, you've clearly looked deeply into this, something i sincerely appreciate,

ralph

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Robb:
1. I now notice a double standard between the expectations of II's leaders and II's "members."  Because so many members call for II's leadership to be transparent and forthright in our dealings (which they should), and II is a very visible entity, virtually demanding that II's leadership operate in the public eye, we assumed that the community wanted a certain degree of human transparency infused into the communal ethic overall.

Do you publish transcripts of II staff meetings that can be found through googling? As far as I know you don't, and until you do your comparison doesn't hold up. All II discussions and decisions take place behind closed doors, even though they're "only" business decisions, but you expect the members to bare their personal lives and interiors on a forum that is Googlable by any sevenyear-old around the world. Again, the analogy doesn't even remotely work.



Robb:
Our members constantly, and justifably, remind us to operate to greater standards of care and inclusion than typical corporate hierarchies.  I think this is right.  So it's interesting when we discuss a policy that would break the typical mold of anonymity (I doubt it really would, for the record: we will not be asking for IDs) and get resistance that, on first blush, feels to us at the company like "no, the standard community model works just fine."  Errr .... OK, but let's be sure we all agree with that, because in my experience most online communities are shallow (and embarrassing as a supposed exemplar of the depth of integral engagement).  There's no real sense of obligation to the depth (i.e, to the humanity) operating behind each of them.

Yes Robb, your experience of most online communities have been shallow. But those communities were not explicitly or implicitly Integral!!!
The depth in the Multiplex and IIZaadz doesn't come from revolutionary right quadrant technology/software, it comes from the interior depth of the participants. That you do not immediately grok this is perfectly understandable since you've never been immersed in any of the Integral forums that exist. And since you haven't, you simply do not have the input you need to make any kind of informed decision about what would work and what wouldn't.

I therefore humbly suggest that you sit down (or have a tele-conference) with 3-4 longstanding members of this community, and pick their brains regarding the inner workings of integral forums, and find out about what actually draws people back to these forums time and again. IMHO that would be much more efficient than having forum members comment on random suggestions on how the forum could be improved.


Thanks again though for engaging in dialogue. It is huge for the forum members that the CEO of II is actually doing that, after years of silence. Your willingness to do that is a breath of fresh air to be sure.


warmly,
Pelle

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http://pelle.zaadz.com/
http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/

Check out this thread too, which is very relevant to the ongoing discussion.

peace
Pelle

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http://pelle.zaadz.com/
http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/

Dear Brian:  I meant to say this the last time I posted and got distracted by my own silliness.   Your Post was not only well thought out, it was very kind and thoughtful in the way you presented it.  When points are presented in that way, it makes me want to take notice and to consider what is said.  And your sense of humor did make me laugh.   Can't get much better than that combo.   Thanks   Pattye

are real name-selves are more 'authentic' than self-made name-selves ?

does a formal-dress-only invitation completely sabotage the meaning of "integral"?

will there be a reason for a 'shadow' forum at all ?

is everybody who will be famous, already famous ?

will the few voices here leave forcing II into deeper contemplations on the meaning of it's existence ?

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x23.zaadz.com

i agree ikarma !

when the spirit of a place is not doing well in come well intentioned and out of place order-seeker impulses when what we might need is entertainment or some means of stimulation for morale and back to work things go.

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x23.zaadz.com

robb said:

I don't know about you but communicating with 'stagegirl44' just doesn't quite meet my standard for authentic. 

not sure if this idea of requiring "real" names has been dropped by i-i or not .. but "a rose by any other name" seems more "authentic" to me