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blue africa conundrum...

Last post 10-13-2007, 4:14 PM by markevans. 12 replies.
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  •  08-21-2007, 11:00 PM 27587

    • bulungi69 is not online. Last active: 10-10-2007, 5:19 PM bulungi69
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    blue africa conundrum...

    Hi there,

    I've been working with various NGO's for about 5 years now ranging from an orphanage in Ecuador to establishing natural medicinal gardens (based along Permaculture lines) in Uganda.

    Shortly after commencing this work I blissfully realised this would probably be my lifes work.
     
    Now, after recently completing a cert4 in Permaculture Design with the strong intention and resolve of creating a "permaculture ecovillage orphanage' in Eastern Africa (the team is growing and the brief completed, heading over in January) a new player has entered the field.

    Now for the dilemna!

    After 'discovering' Integral (emphasis SD) a couple of years ago, and presenting Spiral Dynamics to a few groups, it is becoming increasingly clear the importance of permitting people access to this material (for that all illusive 'ahaaaa' moment!)

    So the quandry is -

    Is ones time and effort better spent 'spreading the word' to a desperately confused and hungry population (tell me I'm not alone here:)!) or effectively isolating oneself in a premodern culture and creating health at that particular level?

    Of course i realise they are both quite noble and exciting options and I'm deeply honoured to have this 'challenge' but as it is a crossroad, I would certainly appreciate some assistance.

    kind regards,

    Daniel
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  •  08-22-2007, 10:52 AM 27601 in reply to 27587

    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Arthur/adastra says:
    Hi Daniel

    I just cloned this thread in IIzaadz as I thought it might be of interest there as well.  Coincidentally, Moses Ntenga just joined our pod/forum, so I'm hoping he might have something to say on the subject.  Evidently those Africans interested in Ken's work may have a hard time getting ahold of it; here's some of what Moses wrote in a thread where he introduced himself to the pod:
    I am a social scientist, an entreprenuer and a founder and CEO of a child rights rights orgnaisation- Joy for Children-Uganda. I also have a pod Children of Africa here on Zaadz. I must confess , I like children.

    I can to learn about integral from a great friend of mine Donata
    I was asking, at one of the pods on zaadz, why Africa remain poor despite of the efforts being made even by the developed countries. She told me learn about integral and promised me support which she has done up to now. Thanks to her kind and big heart. She reffered me to the I-I which visited and got the basics of the approach. I knew that would not help me and had to go out to look for ken Wilbers book.

    I first moved to the our biggest and oldest university - Makerere ( at times refered to as the fountain of knowledge) but I was shocked that they did not have any of his books. I did stop there, i went to Aristoc Book store (the Amazon of Uganda) they also didnt have any but searched the internet and said they could order for me. One of the books i had asked for Sex, ecology and spirituality………if that is the right one,  they told me its  about $100 when it brought to uganda which turned to be very expensive for me.

    I continued being close to those with integral vision  on zaads and networking  withthem and they have all been good and so helpful to me. Until recently when I landed on Integral pod on Zaadz and right away wrote to Adastra who gave me an invitation to the this pod, I am so grateful to you I have found the right community with in the right community.

    To the rest of the people with Integral vision you are doing amazing job. And if everyone learnt about integral and definately he/she would apply it and the world would a better place for every one. I have already share integral approach with my friends and have  liked it so much. We want to carry it on and  make it know to people in Uganda and beyond. And we will very soon suprise you, what we will come out with. Watch this space!


    Please if any one can send us a book on intergal we will be very  grateful. We  believe  awareness is a great agent of change and this can be best attained through education and sharing information.


    So far on his intro thread people have indicated they are sending:

    - A Brief History of Everything
    - Kosmic Consciousness CD set
    - The Essential Ken Wilber

    spiral out,
    arthur




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  •  08-25-2007, 11:57 PM 27718 in reply to 27601

    • bulungi69 is not online. Last active: 10-10-2007, 5:19 PM bulungi69
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    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    This is great news Arthur!

    Thankyou for this.

    And quite fortuitous as I have worked mostly in Uganda. I'm actaully returning there early next year.

    It has been quite the challenge to find 2nd Tier individuals over there. A great inroad.

    Kind regards,

    Daniel


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  •  08-26-2007, 12:49 PM 27736 in reply to 27718

    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    bulungi69:
    This is great news Arthur!

    Thankyou for this.

    And quite fortuitous as I have worked mostly in Uganda. I'm actaully returning there early next year.

    It has been quite the challenge to find 2nd Tier individuals over there. A great inroad.

    Kind regards,

    Daniel


    arthur/adastra says:
    You're welcome, Daniel.  I love to link people together like that.  Big Smile [:D]  Also this issue is an important one and it's one of the cases where "the rubber meets the road" - how does integral/AQAL work in practice to help make a better world?

     Moses responded on the IIzaadz thread:
    Aurthor- thank you for the link. I would like to make some comments on this. yes, the African people are hungry, at times they may look confused. But there is need to understand them and you will be suprised how great they are.

    Many NGO and other development partners handouts but dont facilite the personel transformation. They give them fish instead of teaching them how to catch fish and probably give them a hook or  a net. We all know that awareness is a great  agent for change and this has not been given much attention in developments approaches in africa. In some instances capacity building has been imphasised  and alot of money injected in it has only ended up in the seminars, workshops in big hotels but what  goes down to the common man is non existent.

    The biggest population of African people are illiterate or semi- illiterate but very bright, hard working and eager to learn. Those who have been reached and given desired information  have performed very well in different fields. We need to push the information for personal transformation and development at any cost. Eventually, diseases, hunger, poverty, illiteracy will take care of themselves.

    Danniel has to “spread the word”  that will open people's eyes and they will meet their own needs. I am thinking of how we will influence the academic circles to embrace integral approach and through that it will eventually trickle down to the common man through already existing social systems and institutions.

    I the mean time we can use foras at national and international levels with particular focus on African continent. Through that we will create the desired change people of Africa.

    When I learnt of integral i shared it with friends. Last tuesday we had our first meeting on this subject and we will be meeting every week to learn and share our expriences. Once we have mastered the Integral appoach we will share it with others.


    cheers
    arthur





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  •  08-26-2007, 9:07 PM 27749 in reply to 27736

    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Author,   Thank You for catching this.  So Important.    Brought such warm feelings also and that is very nice.   Whoo hoo.  Pattye

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  •  08-26-2007, 9:07 PM 27750 in reply to 27736

    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Author,   Thank You for catching this.  So Important.    Brought such warm feelings also and that is very nice.   Whoo hoo.  Pattye

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  •  08-31-2007, 9:51 PM 27946 in reply to 27587

    • bulungi69 is not online. Last active: 10-10-2007, 5:19 PM bulungi69
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    Re: blue africa conundrum...


    Well, the conumdrum is still there but with a little less 'con'fusion and a lot more 'drum'...:) An african drum of course. Just joined the Zaadz team. What an exciting mob..!! And a great contact for my return to that grand land early next year.

    Thank you kindly for this...:)
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  •  09-07-2007, 9:18 PM 28258 in reply to 27946

    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Arthur/adastra says:
    I just heard about an interesting alternative copyright scheme that allows one to retain full copyright protection in developed nations, but allow royalty-free use of the material in developing nations.  This could obviously have great applicability in dissemination of integral and other useful material in developing nations.  See my post on Developing Nations copyright here.

    Also of interest: A thread I started on Mark Shuttleworth, the South African entrepeneur behind the Ubuntu operating system.

    'If we are to lift Africa from her current circumstances, we will need a generation of learners that are gifted with curiosity about the world in which they live, and the tools to understand and shape that world'

    - Mark Shuttleworth

    This thread on The Africa Institute is also worth checking out.

    spiral out,
    arthur


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  •  09-08-2007, 8:37 PM 28286 in reply to 28258

    • bulungi69 is not online. Last active: 10-10-2007, 5:19 PM bulungi69
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    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Thank you kindly for this Arthur.

    And once again, intersting timing. I'm presently discussing a landing site with my project partner. And South Africa is putting it's head up at the moment.

    I've checked out the links. I'd actually forgotten about Don Becks work over there. i heard his and KW's talk on apartheid again and was greatly inspired by it. He highlights a part of the dilemna i am facing in the direction of my work. And it's a bit of a 'hot potato'.

    My partner has a strong desire to assist HIV/Aids orphans. i have a deisre to assist all children to realise there inherent greatness. And this was whole lot simpler (albeit naively!) before discovering integral.

    Thing is - when I consider the 'depth and span' of aid in developing countries and where best to apply Integral consciousness,

    - exactly where should one concentralte there energies to effect the greatest change?

    I believe SA offers very exciting opportunities as it contains so many emerging dimensions of beings (albeit with some comparative pathologies!)

    Difficult decisions to be made but I believe vitally important ones.

    I'd appreciate your feelings/thoughts on this...

    kind regards, Daniel

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  •  09-28-2007, 6:11 AM 29188 in reply to 28286

    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Hi Daniel,
    You do have a conundrum. How to create the greatest depth for the greatest span? My suggestion? My favorite second-tier political scientist, Thomas Barnett would say that what people in places like Uganda needs is connectvity with the developed world. Literacy, law and order, foreign capital, jobs, books, education, paved roads to markets to move goods in and out, international languages, internet connections. Paved roads are probably number one. He says it's all about getting a culture to orange with economic development. (Barnett's background is miltary, so he's focused on the prevention of terrorism and war, but he says the cure is development to orange.)

    I am critical of the Gates Foundation because all they are doing is keeping desprately poor people alive and doing nothing about the poverty, and they are in a position to build roads, which no one else is.

    My suggestion to you is go to Africa, do the herbal/health care thing, but do it integrally informed. Read Barnett's books and do what you can to create integral leadership in Uganda. Solicite books and start a library! You can do great things there. I'll send you a copy of Barnett's first book if you send me your address.

    -Mark Evans
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  •  09-30-2007, 4:12 AM 29305 in reply to 29188

    • bulungi69 is not online. Last active: 10-10-2007, 5:19 PM bulungi69
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    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Hi Mark,

    Yup, you nailed it and the thought (however noble if little naughty greenish..;) of hiding myself away on a few acres while the patho pre mods are wearing away my running shoes is not an appealing one. The challenge (okay, apart from the other 1,657,4587...:) to me is how much of the biosphere can we commit to this raising to orange and what will be the future definition of orange?

    I have never actually read any barrett but in the context of this conundrum would dearly appreciate a copy. My address is -

    779 Tyalgum creek road,
    Tyalgum, NSW,
    Australia 2484

    It's a beautiful place, if you make it here soon I'll shout you a beer..:)

    thanks again Mark.

    Darren
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  •  10-02-2007, 2:50 AM 29394 in reply to 29188

    • bulungi69 is not online. Last active: 10-10-2007, 5:19 PM bulungi69
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    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    Oops, that's '776' Tyalgum creek road, Tyalgum, NSW,  Australia, 2484

    thankyou again for this Mark.

    That's very kind of you...

    :)
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  •  10-13-2007, 4:14 PM 29948 in reply to 29394

    Re: blue africa conundrum...

    I thought you were in Uganda, where such a book would be hard to find and having there would be a benifit to Ugandans.

    If you're still in Australia, get it at the library.
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