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what's with the advertising?

Last post 09-28-2006, 1:21 PM by adastra. 71 replies.
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  •  09-27-2006, 10:32 AM 9574 in reply to 8523

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Okay . . .

    I-I Forum Advertising log 9/27/2006, 10:12 a.m.

    Dear me, I have to be completely honest about this,

    I do not like this flashing neon sing thing here on the forum where I come to look at other things. And, er, um, come to exercise my mind with and in and around integral thouhs and ideas as they are shared with and by others in this sacred intersubjective space.

    I think it would be the same for even non-member visitors.

    It's all pretty to look at the first time around; great, cool graphics and animation and all . . . but . . .

    I'm almost afraid to even mention it I hate it so much.

    I am sorry I simply have to jump on the fully dissenting bandwagon on this one.

    I get enough of this in your face shit everywhere else in my life. It really does not bode well for my joy of continual participation here . . .

    What a drag when I-I becomes MySpace . . .

    Am I really such a dolt to have believed here it would be different?

    Shit man. Mindfulness it is not.

    Regrettably, Tim

     


    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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  •  09-27-2006, 10:40 AM 9577 in reply to 9574

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    timelody:

    Okay . . .

    I-I Forum Advertising log 9/27/2006, 10:12 a.m.

    Dear me, I have to be completely honest about this,

    I do not like this flashing neon sing thing here on the forum where I come to look at other things. And, er, um, come to exercise my mind in this sacred intersubjective space.

    I think it would be the same for even non-member visitors.

    It's all pretty to look  the first time around, great, cool graphics and animation and all . . . but . . .

    I'm almost afraid to even mention it I hate it so much. I am sorry I simply have to jump on the fully dissenting bandwagon on this one. I get enough of this in your face shit everywhere else in my life. It really does not bode well for my joy of continual participation here . . .

    What a drag when I-I becomes MySpace . . .

    Am I really such a dolt to have believed here it would be diffeent?

    Shit man. Mindfulness it is not.

    Regrettably, Tim

    I'd like to go on record as fully endorsing what Tim said here; let me be perfectly clear:

    I FUCKING HATE THIS SHIT.

    I regard it as spam, and data smog.  It will help encourage me to stop using this website.  Furthermore, it's bad enough that it is on the main board, but then it's on each and every fucking subforum that you click on.

    I STRONGLY encourage everyone to read and think about David Shenk's excellent book Data Smog. 

    I remember him talking about a city in the states where they put advertisements on the fucking sidewalks.  And a state (maybe Vermont?) where it's so soothing to drive around in because billboards are banned there.

    The internet for the most part has become a fucking mall, and yet you can still find an oasis here and there which is ad-free - especially free of the moving kind that grabs your eyeballs.  I find it regrettable that the I-I forums no longer constitute such a space.

    arthur



    "All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people." -Eugene Pallette as Alexander Bullock in MY MAN GODFREY
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  •  09-27-2006, 10:48 AM 9578 in reply to 9574

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    There is no sense of logic here (OK, I confess: I like a sense of coherence).

    First they put up ads for various things. We (the users) criticize them for this and they then proceed to change the ads to information. That felt really good. Constructive. A nice compromise.

    And now they tell us all to bend over, 'cause they ain't done with us. Ad-free? Ha! Dream on suckers. You pay, and we advertise.

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  •  09-27-2006, 10:53 AM 9580 in reply to 9577

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Agreed Arthur and pelleB

    Seriously. It's like trying to do your homework with the TV on. It's not even healthy.

    And I am going to be even more honest again. As a father of four, constant distraction is a BIG part of my life (check out my recent post on I Fucking Hate . . . ). This place is, at least for me, a certain refuge and part of my Integral Life Practice as I have shared many times in many various different places on the forum.

     

    I am completely honest here. A loud, blaring neon animated CONSTANT nagging, grating sign . . . . seriously, it really sucks ass. And, no, I don't have ADHD where such a thing might help . . .

     

     


    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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  •  09-27-2006, 11:12 AM 9582 in reply to 9580

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Right. And ditto, ditto, ditto.

    A jumpy ad at the top of these pages is so tacky and counterproductive, I'm wondering if the guys who come up with this shit are just goofing around, and when they get bored, they mess with our heads a bit to see if they can get a reaction.

    Well, here it is. I immediately scroll the offensive advertisement out of view, every page, every time, without reading it.

    M
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  •  09-27-2006, 12:45 PM 9591 in reply to 9582

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    My perspective tends toward the professional web-design aspect of things, and let me tell you, it's not good from that end, either Surprise [:O]!

    Ok, it's a really simple thing to do in Flash to have the ad run once through and stop. So it is, in essence, a conscious choice to have that thing flashing over and over. Very irritating, poor design. One always wants to keep one's target audience in mind when doing this sort of thing, and they've completely missed the mark.

    For God's sake, take the banner ad out of private messages, if you have any human decency at all.

    Knowing how to run the program does not a good designer make. Please print that out, guys, and put it on your cubicle wall.

    And please, don't alienate your core constituency!

    Liz

    Enlightenment is like getting old-it's not for sissies, but it beats the alternative.
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  •  09-27-2006, 1:08 PM 9595 in reply to 9591

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Call me adventurous, but I just right-clicked on the ad, got a pop-up menu, selected 'block images of ...', and the ads are gone from all pages! I can still see all other images (I'm using Firefox)

    Thought I'd share this... Wink [;)]

    Peter

    Punch a higher floor
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  •  09-27-2006, 1:12 PM 9597 in reply to 9595

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    It works for me, too, though I'm also using Firefox. Thanks and blessings on you and your family for a thousand generations!

    Liz

    Enlightenment is like getting old-it's not for sissies, but it beats the alternative.
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  •  09-27-2006, 1:27 PM 9601 in reply to 9595

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    kessels:
    Call me adventurous, but I just right-clicked on the ad, got a pop-up menu, selected 'block images of ...', and the ads are gone from all pages! I can still see all other images (I'm using Firefox)

    Thought I'd share this... Wink [;)]

    Peter

    Doesn't work for me.

    Here's a suggestion, if it's implementable:

    Set up the ad so that it does not appear to people who are PAYING TO ACCESS YOUR WEBSITES.  Let it appear to the poor saps who are reading the forums for free.  Give 'em another incentive to fork over money once/month to I-I.

    I'm less inclined to go to movie theatres these days because I'm paying to sit and be exposed to ads before the movie - what the FUCK is up with that?  I'd rather not have the same thing happening here.

    As long as I-I is accessing the orange meme, I suggest they start hiring people to go around posting on various chat sites talking about how awesome Integral Institute is.  Telemarketing is another winning suggestion - there must be some way to get lists of people who are more likely to be Second Tier (I suggest starting with people who have purchased Holosync, are members of Zaadz, or subscribe to What is Englightenment - Unbound).

    Assuming you get a rich source of revenue coming in from the ads, why not put some of it into setting up non-proprietary coding on the audio/video material - or would that be a conflict of interest?

    arthur



    "All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people." -Eugene Pallette as Alexander Bullock in MY MAN GODFREY
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  •  09-27-2006, 1:32 PM 9602 in reply to 9601

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Seems relevant - note underlined portion:

    Coping with "Data Smog"

    From Apply Now,
    Your Guide to Mental Health Resources.
    FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!

    Data smog is a term coined by David Shenk to refer to the information overload that many of us have experienced recently. The internet allows us to have access to entire libraries of information. The sheer volume of information which many of us are exposed to every day may actually impair our performance and add stress to our lives.

    About.com exists partly because of data smog. The human guides at About.com sift through this data and present you with only the most relevant sites and information. This is in sharp contrast to most search engines, which will present you with hundreds of sites, many of which are irrelevant to your search.

    Larry Rosen and Michelle Weil see data smog as a subset of what they call "TechnoStress", and they have written a book by that title.  Rosen has written widely on these issues.

    Rosen quotes studies which show that employees of Fortune 1000 companies send and receive an average of 178 messages every day by telephone, fax, email, pager, and voice mail. 84% reported that their work is interrupted by messages at least three times per hour. Shenk, in his book Data Smog, states that the average American encountered 560 daily advertising messages in 1971. By 1997 that number had increased to over 3,000 per day.

    Are there things we can do to avoid Internet data smog as we surf? Here are some ideas taken from Shenk, Rosen, and others.

    • Turn off the television for at least an hour or two every evening.
    • Spend some time each week without your pager or cell phone.
    • Resist advertising - never buy a product based on unsolicited email (spam).
    • Go on periodic "data fasts." A weekend in the country away from the telephone can rejuvenate a smogged-in brain.
    • Write clearly and succinctly. Verbose writing is wasteful and difficult to read.
    • Skim newsletters and magazines and rip out a copy of an article or two that you really want to read and digest.
    • Filter your email. Many email programs allow you to set "filters" which send unwanted email directly to the trash. It is worth taking the time to do this.
    • Allow others to filter the data for you. About.com's Guides are human information filters. Use the sites here to point you to just the information you want, while eliminating unwanted information.
    • Do not forward chain letters, urban legends, urgent messages about email viruses, or claims that Bill Gates will send everyone thousands of dollars. These things clog up everybody's inbox with worthless stuff.
    • Organize your Web bookmarks or favorites. Keeping these in meaningful folders will go a long way toward helping you really find that site you are looking for.
    • Consider your starting point. If you are looking for information on a broad topic a site like About.com (or even Yahoo) is better choice than a search engine. For a specific topic or individual a search engine may work better. Mental Health Search  lists scores of mental health search engines. Use MEDLINE   or PsychInfo (fee-based) to search the academic literature.   


    "All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people." -Eugene Pallette as Alexander Bullock in MY MAN GODFREY
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  •  09-27-2006, 2:28 PM 9609 in reply to 9602

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Thanks Arthur . . . now it makes me even more depressed than I already was about this. YES! DEPRESSION. D-E-P-R-E-S-S-I-O-N. (granted I was already depressed today but . . . boy, this certainly is not a pick-me-up.)

    FOLKS! Turquoise Integral advertaising this is not. Whatever was there before was ten times better. And what is here now is ten times worse and boy . . . I'm with pelle above. I though our voice had been heard but, apparently not.

    Rather, this really seems more like a f****ing kick in the teeth, if ya ask me.

    Honestly, depression today or no, . . . . I have had thoughts about ending my mebership because of this.

    I repeat. Me. With upwards of 8-9000 post points here. This makes me want to END MY MEMBERSHIP! Please take note of that. END MEMBERSHIP.

    What in the F*** are we doing here anyway? Integral morphogenesis, or BEATING AN ALREADY GROWING TREE OVER THE HEAD WITH A FREAKING JACK-HAMMER? A little water and sunlight is enough . . . .

    And if anyone missed JaneMc's post at the end of the last page I am with her as well. What the hell? I need to have my lower-level libido stroked in order to be interested in I-I and what programs it might have to offer? I am a married man with four going on five children. I am NOT interested in oooo ohhhh ooooooo "exploring poly -oh go F** yourself relationships"

    I know such statements belong in the 7th circle but, .  . .This is an insult.

    Sorry.

    Tim

    I wish I could have writte this with my cool, black -I+I- pen! . . . but now the INK is running out! Drat.
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  •  09-27-2006, 3:34 PM 9617 in reply to 9609

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    I'm reminded of some previous times when we felt unheard-it's always a fabulous time to look at our own reactions, Tim. Tra-la-la, another growth opportunity! My reaction is one of a sense of ownership being ignored. Hell, being ignored at all is plenty to trigger me and most people.

    I thought I'd threaten to leave, but really, there's no one person they can't do without. That would be shooting myself in the foot. This place would barely register a tick if I left, or if anyone did for that matter. (OK, there might be some cheering in some corners.Stick out tongue [:P])

    A mass exodus would be something else, but that's not going to happen, either. So I'm leaving that threat unspoken.

    My default position, then is going to be this: they paid attention the last time we complained, perhaps they will do so again. Difficult customers get spit in their soup, you know? I for one am going to treat the nebulous "them" how I would like to be treated, and let the rest take care of itself. It probably will.

    Liz





    Enlightenment is like getting old-it's not for sissies, but it beats the alternative.
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  •  09-27-2006, 3:52 PM 9619 in reply to 9609

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Tim, I hope you reconsider leaving here.  I think Kessels pointed out that there is a way to disable the ads, at least for Firefox users.  (I don't have Firefox and I haven't tried yet).

    I agree with you and others that the banner ads are unwelcome and overly flashy.  The ad itself is also kind of cheap.  I guess they wanted something edgy and fresh, but it falls flat with me.

     


    May the boundless knowledge that time presents and space allows illuminate the native perspectives of your original face.

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  •  09-27-2006, 4:09 PM 9620 in reply to 9609

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    IMO, there's nothing wrong with advertising for WET here... this forum is the perfect channel for targeting individuals who are likely to have an interest in the seminar.

    Admittedly the display ad is a bit unsophisticated: It's gimmicky and has a high irritation factor; definitely feels like its trying (too hard) to sell something and not like content describing an offering.  I would almost compare it with one of those "Hit the pinyata with the baseball bat and win a trip to Mexico" ads you see on MySpace.  It's very intrusive.

    More importantly, neither the ad nor the landing page seem to convey the I-I brand promise effectively, which is surprising in light of the fact that so many parts of the multiplex make that promise pellucidly clear in my opinion.  With regards to the any specific promises / benefits associated with the WET course, there is a decisive lack of clarity in both the display ad and the landing page.  So people are being asked to pay for something, and the only selling feature that makes sense is that the course is "designed by Ken Wilber".  (Which, actually is an immensely powerful selling feature, so who knows - maybe the ad will have decent conversion, in spite of its flaws).

    If I were asked to "fix" this banner ad (since some of the members here apparently find it ENRAGING), these would be my initial recommendations:
    1.  Completely jettison the animation.  Users on these forums are highly familiar with the page layout and will notice anything new, even if it is subtle.  Some of the most effective ads on MySpace, Facebook, etc. are simple jpgs or tifs.  This is the case because (1) they are less annoying and (2) they tend to assume / respect users' intelligence.
    2.  Don't use awkward, hard-to-digest metaphors like "polyamory".  Polyamory could be understood to be chaotic / painful / rip-your-heart-out / etc.  It's not instantly clear what this means.  We're talking about self-integration here, so find an image of integration that is simple, coherent and rings true.  Just brainstorming, but maybe it is how a bee-hive responds and adapts so well to its environment since all the bees are strongly integrated into the system.  Or maybe an image of how magnetic waves cause iron filings to fall into beautiful patterns.  Or maybe they could stick with all the different colored stick-men and show them blending into a beautful white light, but just leave out the mention of polyamory.

    Landing Page:
    3.  Don't ask confusing questions like "Isn't it time to move your energy inward?".  What the hell does that mean?  Aren't I already doing that?  And, doesn't AQAL theory recognize both internal and external dimensions of reality?  Why would I only want to focus on one?
    4.  The main benefit of the seminar (Radical & sustained transformation of self) is hidden way down at the bottom in the fine print of the copy.  This (or some improved copy that gets this message across) should be the headline.  Tell me loud and clear in language I do not have to work to understand: what is the seminar about and why would I want to go. 
    5.  Include a picture of the retreat facility and mention that it is inspired by KW in the caption.  A picture is worth a lot more than an entire paragraph of painfully awkward copy.
    6.  In other words, figure out what you are selling and find a way to communicate that simply.  If you cannot communicate it simply, you do not know what you are selling.

    Those are just my initial suggestions.  But I do think that implementing these would do a lot more for the brand as well as generate higher sales.

    Cheers,
    Justin


    What happens when all this raging-orange-mean-green-ego-mania-coca-cola-pococurante-blow-meme-bullshit goes up in smoke?
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  •  09-27-2006, 4:26 PM 9622 in reply to 9619

    Re: what's with the advertising?

    Another thing they could consider is a frequency cap, which would limit cookie-enabled users to seeing the ad a certain number of times, perhaps 2 x per day as a maximum, for example.

    What happens when all this raging-orange-mean-green-ego-mania-coca-cola-pococurante-blow-meme-bullshit goes up in smoke?
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