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Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

Last post 09-29-2006, 8:03 AM by Helene. 10 replies.
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  •  09-24-2006, 9:31 AM 9150

    Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    What mystifies me at this point in studying Wilberian Philosophy is that I have yet to get a firm grasp of the essential objective of his theories. That’s not remotely saying that there is not one in his mind, just that perhaps my studies are insufficient. Or the Integral communicative apparatus might do a better job of refining its message.

     

    What is he trying to produce?

     

    An easier way to what?

     

    Has he merely produced a more refined husk so to speak, or another way to reference the exoteric?

     

     

    I think we need from the Wilberian philosophy at least a metaphor for his intent that should be at the forefront of Integrals communication apparatus. For example, something like:

     

    INTEGRAL THEORY:

    A MODERN APPROACH TO UNITY, DEVELOPMENT, AND TRUTH.

    OR TRUTH, DEVELOPMENT, AND UNITY, something like that.

     

    Often times I realize there is a hidden element, or occult aspect to something that the initiator of it may or may not be in tune with. By occult I don’t mean magic or anything sinister, only that the intent of the ideas is producing something that dynamically transcends the original intent and is hidden from the practitioners.

     

    I personally perceived on immediate contact with integral ideas a hidden strain of reality that transcends whatever is the exoteric content of, in this case Ken Wilber’s integral.

     

    In my Sufi studies I have learned that the interior level of reality and how it operates often times is the reality behind the exterior forms of intent and substance of any system of thought. So the overriding guide of integral ideas is only utilizing this outer form of theory to induce something far beyond anything the practitioners even imagined.

     

    And I think that inner real intent is doing two things simultaneously:

     

    One, it is reaching to eliminate sectarianism in any form and create a sort of broad umbrella of  beliefs that accept as valid any and all legitimate belief and developmental systems on all levels, with the intent to do two things:

     

    One: reinforce human unity

    Two: bring to the surface the most effective systems of development.

     

    The other intent or secondary one is to bridge the gap of science and religious systems that separated at the birth of Western scientific method and enquiry.

     

    In other words Ken Wilber is in a sense, a prophet to the misguided scientists, and is trying to bring them back in the fold.

     

    The compassionate force that seems to underlie this worthy inner stream is what I identify as god, or the divine that is always working to better our condition and bring about unity despite ourselves.

     

     

    I will end this post with a synchronistic observation about AQAL or for our sake, let’s transpose the anagram a bit and call it ALAQ.

     

    Coming from a Sufi tradition l couldn’t help but notice that the label AQAL or ALAQ

    All levels all quadrants just happens to be synchronistic with the 96 chapter of the Koran

     That was the first revelation to the Prophet Muhammad that tradition has it was seized in meditation by the Archangel Gabriel and commanded in the first 5 verses to:

     

    1. Read in the name of thy lord who creates
    2. Creates man from a clot
    3. Read and thy lord is most generous
    4. Who taught by the pen
    5. Taught man what he knew not

     

     

    This chapter in Arabic is called:

     

    AL ALAQ

     

    The clot

     

     

     

    Truth has strange bedfellows indeed!

     

    Girard 77

     

     

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  •  09-24-2006, 10:27 AM 9160 in reply to 9150

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    KW is a mapmaker, wouldn't you say? I don't think he makes any claims beyond that. Giving us a cognitive framework which is more inclusive than any other that has come before, could in and of itself be his intent.

    Or am I not getting your post, Girard77?


    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
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  •  09-24-2006, 11:12 AM 9169 in reply to 9160

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    pelleB:

    KW is a mapmaker, wouldn't you say? I don't think he makes any claims beyond that. Giving us a cognitive framework which is more inclusive than any other that has come before, could in and of itself be his intent.

    Or am I not getting your post, Girard77?

    I understand the map making idea, but am concerned with people getting lost in the map instead of the destination being sought.

     

    Is this map relative to seeking fulfillment through the quest for enlightenment?

     

    I believe Wilber is wise enough to know this, but any Holon becomes a struggle for its own existence once we bring it in this world.

     

    In other words this map can become a rival or veil to the search for truth.

    I am not saying this is so, but just that some may take the cup for the wine, if the cup becomes so beautiful.

     

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  •  09-24-2006, 1:20 PM 9178 in reply to 9169

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    girard77:

    I understand the map making idea, but am concerned with people getting lost in the map instead of the destination being sought.

     

    Is this map relative to seeking fulfillment through the quest for enlightenment?

     

    I believe Wilber is wise enough to know this, but any Holon becomes a struggle for its own existence once we bring it in this world.

     

    In other words this map can become a rival or veil to the search for truth.

    I am not saying this is so, but just that some may take the cup for the wine, if the cup becomes so beautiful.

     

    I hear you. And I think KW as well has realized this, because recently he has been talking a whole lot more about practice, and that even a paradigm should be thought of as what you do not what you believe.

    Another thing we have to hold in mind is that Ken has read unbelievably large amounts of material, understood all of it, and then integrated everything in a beautiful and relatively simple map. But when it comes to practice he has hardly tried everything or even most of what there is (for the spiritual path, healing, shadow work, etc) - so in that area I believe it's important to keep an open mind and also look outside the practices recommended by I-I.


    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
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  •  09-25-2006, 12:03 PM 9289 in reply to 9178

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    First off,  it is,  um,  synchronous that you should start a thread on this subject just as I was suggesting you had gotten stuck in what I called "Gods echo chamber."  I wasn't trying to "gun you down" and make a name for myself - I honestly have no idea who you are,  and the post I responded to was only the 2nd or 3rd of yours I had read.  If you were trying to push buttons,  you succeeded Wink [;)].  I have to say that I personally prefer your more,  um,  reserved posts - which means most of them.  The truth is I'm still not sure what you were trying to do with that post that triggered me - and I've given up trying to figure it out.

    Now,  on to synchronicity!  I have found many interesting synchronicities involving AQAL - and you've just learned me one more,  so thanks Smile [:)].

    One involves gematria,  which you are probably familiar with - the system used in Kabbalah whereby letters are taken as numbers so that every word has a value. 

    Lets start chronologically.  El,  or Al,  aleph lammed (AL),  the Hebrew word for God,  has the value of 31.  Of course Allah,  Alif Lam Ha in Arabic (ALH),  is the same as the Hebrew Elah,  aleph lammed heh (ALH),  a varient form of Al.  Interestingly,  La,  lammed aleph (LA),  which also means God in Hebrew and allso has the value of 31,  can be combined with Al to create the phonetic equivalent of ALH in English:  AL-LA.

    It has been argued that,  for reasons stemming from the symbolism of the letters themselves,  that LA is God the Creator,  or Bhrahma breathing out,  while AL is God the Destroyer,  or Brahma breathing in,  and thus AL-LA represents the totality.  But I digress.

    Moving forward in time to 1904 (or 1909 according to some) we have Aleister Crowley,  occultist,  con-artist,  shameless self-promoter,  according to some an accomplished mystic,  according to himself a Prophet (or Magus as he termed it) on a par with Mohammed or Gotoma Bhuddah.

    He claims to have receaved while in trance a short book he called The Book Of The Law (literally Torah,  or Liber Legis).  Let us ignore weather the whole thing is a sham - it isn't relevant to this.  There is a passage in the third and final chapter in which "Horus" tells him that "in these are mysteries that no Beast shall divine.  Let him not seek to try:  but one cometh after him,  whence I say not,  who shall discover the Key of it all.  Then this line drawn is a key:  then this circle squared in its failure is a key also."

    Liber Legis,  or Liber Al as it is often called,  is always published along with a mimeograph of the original handwritten document.  Just under this passage there is a circle with a cross drawn through it.  This could be the Rose&Cross,  a western equivalent of the Yin-Yang symbol,  but it looks suspiciously like an AQAL diagram.  But so what,  a coincidence right?  It was later claimed that the Key of it all had been found - and the answer is . . . 31. 

    Um,  okay.  Kinda reminds me of that part in the Hitchhikers Guide where after more than a million years the most powerful computer ever made gives the answer to "the meaning of life and everything" and the answer is 47.  But for numerlogical reasons I won't go into right now that number fits and yet doesn't make much sense by itself.

    In another of his "holy books" called Liber Trigrammaton,  Crowley lays out 27 trigrams similar to I Ching.  The difference is that a dot for Tao is added to the lines for Yin and Yang,  so that there are 27 possible combinations.  Taking this as trinary code,  or a base 3 number system,  this gives us the numbers 0 - 26.  In his comment to this book,  Crowley associates an English letter to all but the last of the trigrams.  And thus is born Trigramaton English Qabbalah,  or TEQ - an English system of Gematria.

    Now this system gives each letter two values,  which is important.  For example the first letter,  "I" is both 0 and 1,  just as the second,  "L" can be both 1 and 2.  This gives all words two possible values.

    So,  what are the values of AQAL by this system?  27 and 31.  27 is the number of trigrams (and thus AQAL is "A to Z" as it were,  a Key of it all).  31 is the number of the Key - as well as the value of AL,  or God (which is why Liber Legis is often called Liber AL).

    All of this might lead me to believe that there was some guiding intelligence here - after all these synchronicities span decades - centuries even.  It can't be attributed to Crowleys "psychic" echo alone - and I can't believe Wilber intentionally designed AQAL to value 31 or the diagram to resemble that curious little circle in the manuscript of Liber Legis.  It is certainly tempting to believe that as Crowley was the initiating Magus of the Aeon of Horus,  so too is Wilber the intiating Magus of the Aeon of Maat - it would certainly fit the idea of Green deconstruction followed by Yellow re-construction or integration.  AQAL is a formula on a par,  in my mind,  with that of Tetragrammaton - someday it will be known as a name of God.

    But I must remain skeptical.  I must believe nothing.

    Which brings me to the Kabbalist Ain - or no-thing,  similar to the eastern concept of Emptyness.  In TEQ nothing = either 81 or 88.  The second number is interesting because 88 resembles two infinity symbols turned on their sides,  and thus is a glyph for infinite duality.  So,  nothing = infinite duality,  non-duality is not other than duality,  or,  as Crowley put it,  2 = 0.

    But what does AL equal in TEQ?  It is either 6 or 8.  So AL-LA is 8-8.  Curious,  yes?  Such significant coincidences mulitlply infinitely if one looks.

    So,  in Hebrew:
    31 = AL,  LA
    In TEQ:
    27 = number of trigrams in Liber Trigrammaton,  and AQAL by first numeration
    31 = Key of it all,  AQAL by second numeration
    88 = nothing
    8 = AL,  LA by second numeration,  and of course is the number of trigrams in I Ching
    8-8 = AL-LA

    Christ said "It is a foolish generation that looks for a sign."  Foolish,  perhaps,  because such signs are ultimatley our own making.  "Seek and you shall find" - even if what you find is only your own projection.  But sometimes it is hard to explain it that way - it isn't always easy to maintain an unwavering faith in nothing,  but as Crowley wrote in The Book of The Heart Girt Roud With A Serpent:

    "Also I was in the spirit vision and beheld a parricidal pomp of athiests,  coupled by two and by two in supernal ecstasy of the stars . . .They beheld not God;  they beheld not the Image of God;  therefore were they arisen to the Palace of the Splendour Ineffable."

    (I seem to remember someone saying something about Crowley not being a mystic.  Hmm.  Stick out tongue [:P])

    Still,  I love synchronicities.  The more outrageous and inexplicable the better.  Thanks for starting this thead.

    Mike

    P.S.  For more on TEQ check this out.  A lot of interesting stuff.  Keep grains of salt in hand.
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  •  09-25-2006, 8:20 PM 9350 in reply to 9289

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    I appreciate your post very much.

     

    I have studied and am a fan of Kabbalah, and Tao.

     

     I am well aware of this numerology technique, but through Arabic that is very similar to Hebrew. In fact LA in this system is also 31. It is known as the Abjad.

     The Arabic word for god, for instance:

    Allah= 66

     

    A=1

    L=30

    L=30

    H=5

        66

    you dont count the vowels

     

    This may be interesting to you

     

    If you add up in this system the Arabic names for Adam and Eve or Hawah (Eve) in Arabic, you also get 66.

     

    Now that means a lot to me, but at this time that’s all I will say about this.

     

    Concerning Crowley. First I must correct you, I didn’t say Crowley wasn’t a Mystic, I said he wasn’t, in my opinion, an advanced mystic. An advanced magician? And Occultist? Absolutely. But this is all semantics, it really doesn’t mean much.

     

    I know Crowley’s work pretty well: I have his biography, Tarot Deck, His major Magick text, and actually have read a lot of it. His Book of the law or Thelema I have never checked out. I also have read about Crowley association with the renowned L Ron Hubbard, and the Chemist- Magician Jack Parsons and their Babalon Calling. Very interesting stuff.

     

     

    I find your numerology interesting and useful and will study it more closely, particularly the part about AQAL and 31 and 27.

     

    In the Abjad system that Sufis use the numbers you get from a word is then transliterated to a word, for example my Arabic name Zakariyya= 247   Z=7, K=20, K=20 R=200, = 247. From that you get the root word, RMZ.

    200=R

    40=M

    7=Z

     

    RMZ. Now you go to a Arabic Lexicon and look up the root RMZ, it usually gives a very interesting and relative meaning. In this case RMZ means: He gave a sign indication or wink, not by speech.

     

    If you recall the Prophet Zakarriya after getting news of the birth of John, went around not speaking for three days, only by signs!

     

    Another quick example:

    The word Sufi is 186 or FUQ that’s means lofty                                                  

    S=90

    U=6

    F=80                                                                   

    I=10  = 186

     

    186 is then made into the word FUQ, because    100=Q, 80 =F. AND U=6

     

    The word FUQ means, Lofty, above… So a Sufi is lofty, above, or eminent.

     

    I am sure the system in Hebrew Gematri has a similar method as this.

     

     

    All of this might lead me to believe that there was some guiding intelligence here - after all these synchronicities span decades - centuries even.  It can't be attributed to Crowleys "psychic" echo alone - and I can't believe Wilber intentionally designed AQAL to value 31 or the diagram to resemble that curious little circle in the manuscript of Liber Legis.  It is certainly tempting to believe that as Crowley was the initiating Magus of the Aeon of Horus,  so too is Wilber the intiating Magus of the Aeon of Matt - it would certainly fit the idea of Green deconstruction followed by Yellow re-construction or integration. 

     

    In my opinion it goes all the way back to the originator of Western, Middle-east religion, Mysticism, and science: Hermes, - to the Egyptians, Enoch, to the Hebrews, and Idries to the Arabs.

     

    AQAL is a formula on a par,  in my mind,  with that of Tetragrammaton - someday it will be known as a name of

    God.

     

    I will do AQAL by the Abjad system and see what it comes up with.

     

    By the way I  am sure you know though that Wilber they say is not to enamored with Western occult mysticism

     

    But I must remain skeptical.  I must believe nothing.

     

    What is there to believe? I think that this could be classified as a form of divination, in which once you see that it does work, you just move on and never get attached to it.

     

    It is just a small part of the elephant sort to speak, as per the story of the elephant in the dark.

     

     

    Anyway, thanks for the interesting information, I will definitely check it out more in-depth

     

    Regards

    Girard

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  •  09-25-2006, 9:12 PM 9356 in reply to 9289

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

     Oh I forgot about this:

     

     

    First off,  it is,  um,  synchronous that you should start a thread on this subject just as I was suggesting you had gotten stuck in what I called "Gods echo chamber."  I wasn't trying to "gun you down" and make a name for myself - I honestly have no idea who you are,  and the post I responded to was only the 2nd or 3rd of yours I had read.  If you were trying to push buttons,  you succeeded

     

    I thought about the sycronimous part that we both posted these things simultaneously, but you see that’s my point, that happens so much its no big thing anymore. I have literally thought things that Helen posts! Or visa versa.

    It happens with Tammy also sometimes.

     

    Maybe one day I might share (unlikely) what I really think is going on.

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  •  09-26-2006, 7:39 AM 9388 in reply to 9356

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    I feel that what is often happening with various synchronous thoughts and events and happening and occurrences is that, should you be conscious of it, Spirit is self-organizing.

    Does that make sense? Spirit is pulling together difference various parts of itself towards something, whatever it be. And it is quite astounding to watch or witness because it does show that there is really only a relative separation. So you and I reach the same point, somewhere, somehow, that is Spirit and then the self organization movement occurs, pulling the two or three or whatever together.

    It was only just recently discovered how, it seems, planets form. In the zero gravity of space, tiny particles of matter, when they get close enough, will just pull together; almost jump together, fly together and before you know it what was once a million tiny single separate particles is now a unified something else.

    And I do think the more open one (or many) are to such things, the more, the better, and the quicker it happens.

    There is a constant dialogue going on between Spirit, Spirit and Spirit.


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
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  •  09-26-2006, 8:09 AM 9398 in reply to 9388

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    self-organizing and ' self-delivering'  dialogue  of : Spirt, Spirit and Spirt....a total Mystery it is! isn't that what buddhists call "mind to mind transmission?" it happens!  and it doesn't seem at all like a big deal anymore.

    it's an energy wave-thing, if you ask me...sure feels like a mega-VORTEX- 'possesion' ...full of 'information' . and if one is silent, thoughts 'drop in' asif from nowhere....but the sweetest of all is ...what i call  'visitations'...touching an' snuglin' an' sweet nothing whisperings ........

    PS? the other week i was getting on both cheeks 'puppy kisses' when she was sobbing, this night she patted him . was fully aware my subtle hands were 'patting'.

    why puppy? maybe because the last time i sobbed, the hand that carrassed my face, made me cry harder?

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  •  09-28-2006, 11:00 PM 9791 in reply to 9350

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    Lot O' neat stuff,  Girard.  Thanks.

    And yeah,  it is semantics.  As to Hubbard - I think infamous might be a better word than renowned.  The guy is a crack pot.  He did work an operation with Parsons in an attempt to create a "moon child" as in Crowleys' novel.  Crowley got wind of it and ridiculed them.  The whole point of the novel was the imposiblity of controlling every circumstance in a person's life in order to get a desired outcome (like choosing your childs career path for them while they are still in the womb).

    I don't know that I would acredit Hermes Trimagister (sp?) with founding western occultism - as he is a bit of a mythic figure.  The sources are varied,  from Jewish and Christian mysticism,  to neo-platonism,  to levantine mystery schools.  I can understand why Wilber would be less than enamoured with it - Crowley himself considered 95% of it to be absolute crap - though he said the same about Patanjali (sp?).  It's the other 5% that matters.

    Part of occultism's problem is that it is the product of an underground tradition - a tradition which was always fragmented and secretive.  And now it is over loaded with obfuscating mystery-mongers.  Even among Thelemites - among the most resonable and intelligent IMO - there is a resistence to continuing Crowleys work of weeding out useless superstition and applying the scientific method where possible.

    To be honest,  part of this has to do with the attraction Occultism holds for those who only want to master the siddis (which is impossible without mastering mysticism!),  but ther is also the MGM.  Crowleys' Liber Legis is a declaration of the advent of the Green Meme,  of Pluralism,  in a sense.  The pathological side of that runs rampant - and of course there is resistence among many,  though not all,  to any sort of integral approach.  It is critisized for being too hierarchal,  or for being too materialistic,  or for being too mystical - weather it comes from Wilber,  or from some other source.  There are exceptions to this - and I am one of them.

    I don't know what you mean by occultism - for me it is a fragmented and confused lineage,  but one with beutiful metaphores and efficaceious practices - if only the wheat can be seperated from the chaff!  The World will go on just fine without a more integral occultism - but I feel that its metaphores and practices have been invaluable to me - have,  in fact,  saved my sanity on more than one occasion.  I can't walk away form it - I feel I owe it a debt,  that there is much worth salvaging.

    As to Crowley - he studied under a Sufi master (so he claims) and spent 2 years in a Bhuddist monastery in Sri Lanka.  He was serious about mystical attainment,  and a reading of his later work reveals him,  to my mind,  to have been a non-dual realizer.  Even such a simple practice as the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram - which Crowley did not write,  but expounded on - is an incredibly simple yet powerful practice.  It should perhaps be called the Lesser Transcending Ritual of the Pentagram (and is more akin to meditation and yoga than to magic). 

    His qualifications as a serious mystic - and proficient one - seem obvious to me. He was not without shadow - but the core cognitive realisation,  the spiritual awakening,  I feel was there.  That is only my own intuition,  but the real Crowley is far from the image painted of him in the popular press,  and even farther from that esspoused by many romantic neo-pagans.

    But anyway,  that's just my take on him.  To be sure he could be a real twisted bastard Stick out tongue [:P]

    take care,
    Mike
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  •  09-29-2006, 8:03 AM 9821 in reply to 9791

    Re: Wilberian Integral, hidden streams, and the Synchronicity of knowledge

    well, if Crowley is twisted, then we  may as well be too!Cool [H]

    circulating ....

    thought-ideas...

    in the collective unconscious.....

    who knows!?

    whence or how....

    when same vibe mind-ripe-ready,

    i tap into same stream-information 

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