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300 Millionth United Statian

Last post 10-23-2006, 10:39 AM by rkrkrk. 52 replies.
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  •  10-18-2006, 8:37 AM 11567 in reply to 11558

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    Yeah, Mark even implied in another post that people on this thread were saying that others need to limit their individual family size, which was never said. I find it amazing that the concept of a smaller average family size has been hijacked to mean "we want you to choose which of your children lives or dies" like "Sophie's Choice."

    There's really no point in continuing if we're just going to be defending things we haven't said.  I have been very supportive of Tim in the past having the number of children he feels are waiting to be born to him, and I still feel that way. I feel I need to state that explicitly. Even joking, which was meant to lighten the mood, was interpreted as hostility towards his children, and returned to Arthur as a vile personal attack.

    Sorry, Tim. I don't know what else to say.

    Maybe someday when we've cleared the air we can go on to discuss this, but I'm out for now.

    Liz

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  •  10-18-2006, 9:37 AM 11570 in reply to 11567

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    Arthurs initial comment was meant as a joke, and I took it as such, as I think my inital reply demonstrates.

    Tim obviously didn't appreciate it. Other's joined in, and I don't think either one of us appreciated the fact of where alot of the comments seemed to be pointed. Correct or not, perceptions sometimes slant things.

    So, if you are going to bring people, by name, into a thread and discuss their families, you should be prepared for some, as colinwolf said....reactionary comments.

    It would have been different, if Tim or I, volunteered information about ourselves into the thread, but we didn't.

    It was thrown out as a joke, and took a turn as the thread continued.

    I have to wonder just what in the hell did you expect to happen?

    I agree. Let us not continue this one.




    In a black and white picture....there's a lot of grey junk
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  •  10-18-2006, 10:27 AM 11578 in reply to 11567

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    Here's one more post about what wasn't said. 

    Liz, you are right.  On another thread I did poke green in the eye with a sarcastic remark about the apparent lack of its vaunted pluralism re: tolerance for large families.  But I did not direct my remarks at anybody who's contributing to these forums.

    It was a general reamark - and there aren't many on these threads whose cognitive line leaves them as qualified recipients of the jibe.

    Yes, I too often react to things not said on sensitive issues, but in that regard I regard myself as in very good company.  I value the regulars (that's why I joined) here and really do want to communicate clearly.

    And thanks, I really like being noticed!

    MarkD


    Just enough enlightenment for this time around, please.
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  •  10-22-2006, 1:15 PM 12021 in reply to 11465

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    timelody:

    Arthur, Thank God you did not make the mistake your parents did.

    Peace, Tim



    Hi Tim

    I want to respond to this, for the record.

    Although it didn't get much of an emotional response from me, this is an outrageous and insulting thing to say to anyone, and appears calculated to hurt.

    Your reputation has taken a possibly irreversible hit with me, and you owe me a sincere, heartfelt apology - I have no expectation that one will be forthcoming, nor am I attached to that outcome.

    Offhand, I can't think of anyone about whom I would make such an appalling statement, nor do I recall ever having done so.  Despite my current low opinion of you, I neither wish that you had never been born, nor do I wish that you had not reproduced.

    I would, however, find it preferable if your offspring - however numerous or few - learn to treat their fellows with respect and tolerance.  I do not, however, have much confidence - based particularly on your behavior in this thread - that you are in any position to help instill such values.

    A final comment: in my view you have behaved in an extremely reactive manner in this thread, among other things responding in a highly charged, attacking manner to things that have not even been said.  At some point you may want to have a look at that.

    arthur



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  •  10-22-2006, 3:16 PM 12033 in reply to 12021

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    Arthur, I am sorry.

     

    But that I would actually mean that –even jokingly-about anyone, would be contradictory to my entire argument on this thread.

     

    I don’t think you can say that about anyone. Ever. That is my point.

     

    I apologize if i have gone to far (and am aware I probably have). I am also aware that I usually do.

     

    I don't think anything ill of you, never did, and hope that one day you can see fit not to see ill of me.

     

    Perhaps that wont happen, but I certainly hope it does.

     

    For now, I am sorry once again.

     

    Peace, Tim


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
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  •  10-23-2006, 6:45 AM 12077 in reply to 12033

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    timelody:

    Arthur, I am sorry.

     

    But that I would actually mean that –even jokingly-about anyone, would be contradictory to my entire argument on this thread.

     

    I don’t think you can say that about anyone. Ever. That is my point.

     

    I apologize if i have gone to far (and am aware I probably have). I am also aware that I usually do.

     

    I don't think anything ill of you, never did, and hope that one day you can see fit not to see ill of me.

     

    Perhaps that wont happen, but I certainly hope it does.

     

    For now, I am sorry once again.

     

    Peace, Tim



    I don't think you're really owning it, Tim - and you appear to be trying to turn it back on me - "I don’t think you can say that about anyone. Ever. That is my point." - which appears to derive from a complete misinterpretation of what I have said in this thread.

    And I reckon your awareness that you usually go too far let's you off the hook, eh? 

    See you around the forum.

    arthur

    I am seeking meaningful work.

    bio: http://aqalicious.gaia.com/

    I spend most of my "forum time" these days on The Integral Pod: http://pods.gaia.com/ii/

    "You've never seen everything." - Bruce Cockburn
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  •  10-23-2006, 8:20 AM 12094 in reply to 12077

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    adastra:


    See you around the forum.

    arthur

     

    Thanks.


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
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  •  10-23-2006, 10:39 AM 12109 in reply to 11522

    Re: 300 Millionth United Statian

    Hey 93,

    Encourage population GROWTH to slow by non-coersive means such as economic incentives.  With these kinds of programs we can get to a place where your average couple has two or fewer kids.  People who want more are free to do so - the goal is to get the AVERAGE down - again,  through non-coersive means.

    Yes, this is clearly the best way to proceed (and the only means proposed by both Negative Population Growth and The Population Connection).  There needs to be a rational public dialogue and debate about the issue, however, so that a formal policy can be developed, adopted and implemented here in the U.S., so that we can set a good example for the rest of the world.

    It is only if we ignore the current and potential consquences of over-population, based on the sustainable carrying-capacities and distribution of resources of our nations and global civilization, that more draconian measures (e.g. coersive restrictions) and declines in human numbers due to warfare, disease and starvation become much more likely.  Current U.S. policy is to continue to ignore.........

    I have been a long-time supporter of NPG (which btw, believes the optimum pop for the U.S. is 150 million........and not 250 million as stated in one of my earlier posts) and ZPG based on my "conservative" belief that we need to slow, stop or reverse global growth until we clearly know we are not doing more harm than good for the greatest number of persons with our defacto, politically-unquestionable pro-growth policy.......

    I still support NPG being a voice that reducing overall numbers may be a wise course.........but they have recently become way too focused on anti-immigration into the U.S. for my taste.........as you correctly point out 93, these pressures from the developing world will only increase until we actually do something meaningful to rasie the third-world's standards of living (and we're even farther from doing that IMO than dealing with our population crises)............

    R.K. 


    "No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness that created it in the first place!"

    887 Posts on Forum #1; 222 Posts on Forum #2......Member Since 8/8/2003
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