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Integral Basics

Last post 01-23-2007, 5:45 AM by pelleB. 35 replies.
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  •  01-08-2007, 7:20 AM 17958 in reply to 17938

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    Great thread, and thanks to Rick and Tim for all the links.

    The Cook-Greuter link from Tim is a very good complement to Ken's writings and gives a deeper understanding of the cognitive line; a line whose importance can not be overestimated.

    I feel we should gather the most important links from this thread and Tim's related thread, and list them in the first post of this thread, classifying them as "start with these" and "then move on to these". That way the most important links become easily accessible for AQAL newbies (as well as us non-newbies!), or people who want to introduce Integral and AQAL to friends, family, etc. Then we ask a moderator to make this thread sticky, if technically possible.


    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
  •  01-08-2007, 7:51 AM 17961 in reply to 17958

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    I am always wishing that we had charts. The charts that are available from holons is useful but I am always wishing we had links, maybe even one forum resource or website (and then even forum copy and paste options) for all the relevent charts. (Basic 4 Quads from SES, etc.)

    It has been said that "they" (I-I) are working on more resources related to this topic. A glossary, the easiest possible introductory explanations, etc. So we'll see. That would be great. But for now we're still on our own.


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
  •  01-08-2007, 9:32 AM 17967 in reply to 17961

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    I'm working on producing some more attractive and accessable images and explanations of the development levels and quadrants to appeal to the general public.  So far I've only got a basic description of the requirements (needs) for healthy development/levels.  It's not perfect (I actually screwed up when I made the artwork, and missed an item that I was planning on putting in, so I awkwardly had to combine Purple and Blue!), but I think it works well enough for a first attempt, and people seem to like it and think it''s useful. 

    Now I need to figure out how to incorporate the quadrants into the project/artwork.  I'm looking for a way to explain interior, exterior, individual, and group in a more elegant and simple way.  And I'm trying to figure out how to make mouse over animation...  Neither are easy!

    Check out what I've got so far at The Wise Turtle's Guide to Human Needs (aka, the Needs Bowls).

    Peace, Love, and Bicycles,
    Turtle
  •  01-08-2007, 10:46 AM 17975 in reply to 17967

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media


    Hey Turtle, I love your artistic concepts and choices there-great work!

    Tim

    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
  •  01-08-2007, 1:05 PM 17988 in reply to 17975

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    As a beginner this was one of my biggest questions:

    Ok - GREAT! Now, where/how can I get an integral assessment? Are there any tools available for me to start conducting accurate assessments about where I am personally at in the various aspects of this integral map? I can begin to do this for myself I suppose - but can I really trust myself to assess myself on an integral map using less-than-integral thinking?

    A survivor looks to the past to tell him who he is, but a fool creates himself in every moment. So ask yourself - would you rather be a survivor, or a fool?
  •  01-08-2007, 1:14 PM 17989 in reply to 17988

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    Livingegg, go the Susanne Cook-Greuter website and click on "LDP Assessment"-this is actually the service that she and her collegues offer, based mostly upon her model (which draws upon others) -but here's a sample of what it says . . .

    Why take the LDP?

    If you want to know your level of leadership maturity and personal integration, the LDP is your answer.

    It identifies your center of gravity on the developmental spiral as well as your fall-back positions and your growing edge.

    A highly trained scorer, not a machine, comments on the unique strengths and vulnerabilities of your way of meaning making and points to the themes and concerns you express.


    There is a fee, of course. And naturally there would be a lot more to a full integral psychograph, but this is at least a start. (And Susanne Cook-Greuter is a founding member of I-I) I have to go check, somewhere there is going to be something offered about creating your own psychograph -there was a post to the forum.

    Anyway, hope that helps for now.


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
  •  01-08-2007, 2:13 PM 17994 in reply to 17988

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    Here's that post I mentioned.

    An excerpt from the post: A con-call with . . .

    David Zeitler

                                  Thurs., Jan., 18, 2007

                            7-9 p.m. EST (NYC; GMT is –5 hrs.*)

    David is one of the faculty members at JFKU’s Integral Studies program and a teacher in I-I's Integral Psychotherapy Center  (see his bio below).  In this concall, he will give a talk followed by Q & A, on:                                            

    Creating Your Integral Psychograph

     

     


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
  •  01-08-2007, 6:51 PM 18003 in reply to 17958

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    Hi Pelle. I appreciate your idea of restructuring the links however I am of two minds in that regard. The reason I went with the structure you see here is that it is interactive i.e. if I post a link then someone else will be reminded they have a good one and add that. If I post a glossary definition and you don't agree with it then we will have a debate and I think the debate will help new poeple trying to understand the definition at a deeper level.

    Even so, given what I have just said, I do see merrit in your approach as well. Lets wait a little while and see.

    Meanwhile, anyone new to the forum can feel free to post your preference too!


    Rick Bateman
    Founder
    Social Circles Canada - A New Kind Of Health Club
    socialcirlces.ca
    +48° 25' 43.45", -123° 20' 10.20" (hint: Google Maps)
  •  01-08-2007, 6:56 PM 18004 in reply to 17923

    Re: Integral Basics: Glossary: "center of gravity"

    I have heard the term "center of gravity" bandied about on the forums recently and, knowing the most terms here are originated by Ken, am wondering if there is an official "Integral" definition for this term?
    Rick Bateman
    Founder
    Social Circles Canada - A New Kind Of Health Club
    socialcirlces.ca
    +48° 25' 43.45", -123° 20' 10.20" (hint: Google Maps)
  •  01-08-2007, 7:00 PM 18005 in reply to 17923

    Re: Integral Basics: Glossary: "horizontal" and "vertical"

    Here are a pair of terms that I have encountered recently around the forum and I don't really know what they mean although I nod sagely when confronted with them. If anyone can offer the official Integral definition of the use of the terms I would appreciate it.
    Rick Bateman
    Founder
    Social Circles Canada - A New Kind Of Health Club
    socialcirlces.ca
    +48° 25' 43.45", -123° 20' 10.20" (hint: Google Maps)
  •  01-09-2007, 12:55 AM 18013 in reply to 18005

    Re: Integral Basics: Glossary: "horizontal" and "vertical"

    rbateman:
    I have heard the term "center of gravity" bandied about on the forums recently and, knowing the most terms here are originated by Ken, am wondering if there is an official "Integral" definition for this term?

    Sorry for the bandying.Smile [:)] But I think I can kill all these birds with one stone, and then you too (and all that shall read this thread) can have an exciting career going throughout the forum bandying about the same terms as well.Big Smile [:D]

     

    (note: definition of these terms is certainly open to further input-or better explanation-from others)

     

    Horizontal and Vertical

     

    Basically "horizontal" means movement at or within any given level.

     

    "Vertical" means movement from one level to the next higher level.

     

    (Gratuitous expatiation)

     

    These terms are also roughly synonymous with the also often used terms translation and transformation.* When I move horizontally at or within any given level I translate my life, the world, my experiences at or from that level. When I move vertically from one level to the next there is an upward transformation, where I begin to see and understand my life, the world, my experiences from a new, higher and generally more encompassing (and actually more integrated**) level.

     

    (A few years ago the emphasis was on an Integral Transformative Practice-with perhaps an emphasis on vertical. Of recent, as you know, it has changed to simply an Integral Life Practice which may emphasize a more translational, horizontal practice, or perhaps potentially encompass both.*** )

     

    General development always encompasses both, or is an intersection of both horizontal and vertical movement. This being so, a more accurate representation of what is actually happening is a spiral. A spiral representation of development can illustrate both the ongoing horizontal and gradual vertical movement of development –as well as potentially illustrate more encompassing levels if the spirals increase in breadth and scope with the upward, vertical movement (as with Beck and Cowen’s Spiral Dynamics).

     

    Center of Gravity

     

    The term "center of gravity" is roughly synonymous with the term "altitude," representing an individual's (or a collective’s) general altitude along the spiral.

     

    (Additional gratuitous expatiation)

     

    It actually has, in a sense, two meanings and those two meanings are also roughly horizontal/translative and vertical/transformative.

     

    The first definition –which is roughly horizontal/translative- is that as we move up the developmental spiral there will be fluctuations and moments of regression or spiraling backward to lower centers for a time (often under moments of stress and/or confusion). But our general center of gravity will exert a pull to reintegrating these moments and experiences back upwards to one's general higher level. (Ex. If I am at orange, situations of great stress may eventually cause me to temporarily regress to a more red level where I might have a self-absorbed temper tantrum and with all of the associated red worldviews. After a time, however, after I “cool out” and/or the situation calms, I will once again return to a much more rational level, view, understanding and handling of things. Orange will be acting as my "center of gravity.") It can also work the other way where moments or situations of potential transformation come about, or we are faced with potentially transformative experiences or knowledge, but our "center of gravity" will or may exert a pull on that potential downward into the more stable and reliable level along with its more familiar means of translation, worldview etc.

     

    The second meaning would be that my general "center of gravity" acts to "pull up" and/or even “pull together” the altitude of all of the various developmental lines or streams, of which there are at least two dozen and maybe more. Development is not at all a ladder like affair, for a person can have a relatively high altitude in one line and extremely low in another, and any number somewhere in between. A commonly used example of an individual with a high altitude in the cognitive line and low altitude in the moral is the Nazi Doctor.

     

    The basic idea in all is that while it really is not true that an individual “is orange” or “is green” in their overall makeup, development or station (see below), none the less recognizable patterns can be seen and or detected and can be said to be that person’s general “center of gravity.”

     

    Center of Gravity also applies to the collective and has a very important meaning in this regard. Basically, it means an entire culture's general highest stable altitude "center of gravity" which acts in certain way and creates various collective forces (both interior and exterior) that pull both individuals within the collective and the collective itself to whatever is the applicable altitude along the  spectrum/spiral. (Ex. The political democratic process exerts a certain pull for all adult citizens to develop to at least orange, for that altitude is necessary to consciously, adequately and appropriately participate in the democratic political process.)

     

     

     

    *translation and transformation may also sometimes be used –and were in Wilber’s earlier works, mostly pertaining to religion and spirituality- to mean exoteric (exterior translation) and esoteric (interior –now especially state-transformation). See A Sociable God. In that book, for example, Wilber posits that contemplative, mystical and escoteric spiritual practices are transformational (and they are) while the majority of religious practice and religious involvement is exoteric and translational.

     

    **each succeeding level, from infrared/beige all the way up is, if healthy, essentially more integrated than the last.

    ***Generally speaking, children are born and undergo numerous major vertical transfomations-while still horizontally translating each successive level in between- up to a certain age; perhaps anywhere from 12-21. But when adulthood is reached vertical transformation generally comes to a hault for many various, as well as unknown, reasons. That said, most ordinary and especially day-to-day adulthood is horizontal. Horizontal movement is sometimes represented in phases, seasons of life, etc. as well as in types, such as the Enneagram, or even astrological signs, or basic male and female typologies. Yet horizontal types or seasons, etc. do not generally account for vertical levels. Arriving at and/or generally staying at a certain level also lends itself to the various levels being "stations." 


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
  •  01-09-2007, 6:38 PM 18050 in reply to 18013

    Re: Integral Basics: Glossary: "horizontal" and "vertical"

    Wow! That is just an awesome response Tim. I get it! Thank you so much, I really appreciate you taking the time to do that.

     


    Rick Bateman
    Founder
    Social Circles Canada - A New Kind Of Health Club
    socialcirlces.ca
    +48° 25' 43.45", -123° 20' 10.20" (hint: Google Maps)
  •  01-09-2007, 6:57 PM 18051 in reply to 18050

    Re: Integral Basics: Glossary: "horizontal" and "vertical"

    No problem, Rick! Now I expect to see frequent healthy doeses of your own personal bandying of those terms.Big Smile [:D]

    Also for further quick reference check TOE pg. 152, notes 8 and 9 and maybe the index refs for "Vertical depth" and "Vertical integration."

    This is a good thread. More, more!


    "With whom or with what are you in communion at this moment?"
    . . ."I?" he replied, almost mechanically. "Why not with anyone or anything."
    "You must be a marvel . . . if you are able to continue in that state for long."
    -Constantin Stanislavsky
  •  01-09-2007, 8:11 PM 18053 in reply to 17961

    Re: Integral Basics: Books & Media

    Dear Tim and all You Good and Generous Guys.

    I will be eternally grateful for what you are planning here.  I started with SES 10 years ago and have read almost all of Ken's works and have the kits, CD's etc.  It will be so great to have this other information.  After starting Carl Jung with the book, The Portable Jung, I needed the modern Jungians to tell me what was written.

    Not that Ken is not modern. Starting with SES was a huge challenge and I wouldn't have continued if I had not recogniszed many areas that I had interest in.  And like the Portable Jung, half the time I did not know what I was reading but I knew it was

    true for me at that time.  And it still proves to be great background.  But sometimes when reading another author where I can say, "Oh that is what he meant."  This last book Integral Spirituality, was hard in a few places and I kept wanting to ask for help.  I did not know what the question was.  One person wrote back that I would

    "get it eventually".  I do hope that there will be some stuff that is not so hard.  Even when Ken writes about his own books, he will come out with very simple understanable ways of saying something as he does in "RoadRules"  or when or when he is talking.   And all these links will be helpful and I can choose what I want

    to read or listen to.  There are days now when I feel I need to quit reading and that my mind is going very soft or no thoughts at all.    However there are only a few points that I need to go over, or learn in a different way.  Thanks for what you are

    thinking of doing here.  I have been following this thread and I may be stuck here for some time.   Unless Tim and his wife have another baby.  Smile.  Love Pattye

  •  01-09-2007, 9:30 PM 18055 in reply to 17961

    Re: Integral Basics: Graphs, Charts & Diagrams

    Here is a link to some Integral graphs, charts and diagrams. I am ONLY including "official" Integral diagrams to keep with the "basics" theme of this thread. These are simply meant as reference images in case you want to refer to them in regards to a post. I am not including explanatory text because... Ken already wrote those books! Big Smile [:D]

    http://rbateman.com/images/integral/map.htm

     


    Rick Bateman
    Founder
    Social Circles Canada - A New Kind Of Health Club
    socialcirlces.ca
    +48° 25' 43.45", -123° 20' 10.20" (hint: Google Maps)
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