Share Your Practicehttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/176/ShowForum.aspxTell us what you do to exercise body, mind, spirit in self, culture and nature.... ~Please enter this forum consciously. May the next words out of your mouth (and into this forum) be from your Highest Self as you understand it.en-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60217.2664)Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15539.aspxSun, 26 Nov 2006 14:50:03 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15539charlesb0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15539.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15539

Hi Pelle,

 

It's been several years since my Holosync experience, and now as i jog my old fart memory, it seems to me that i went through at least three of Harris's so-called levels; none of which did much of anything for me. From my view there is a glaring fault in the Harris system. While it acknowledges levels, it assumes that everyone starts at level zero, or whatever they call it. A more sophisticated approach would try to determine by some sort of testing what level would be appropriate for a candidate to enter the system.  It's unknown to me that if i had the money and inclination to pursue the test further if i would've actually arrived at a place where some help was available, i.e. help me arrive at some place new.

 

Harris did not ask me to test his system; that was my idea. The adult in me insists that i take responsibility for my actions, so the thought of asking for a refund never occurred to me.

 

I'm reminded of the years when i worked for Tom; he was a most excellent boss.  He had two outstanding traits that allowed me to put him in this category. First, he seldom if ever forgot what it was like to work for someone else; and second, he knew when to cut his losses.

 

It happens that i very much prize individuality, and i have no problem with diversity at all; everyone has a place in the Grand Scheme, so the idea that one formula would work for all also never occurred to me.

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15511.aspxSun, 26 Nov 2006 01:06:33 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15511pelleB0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15511.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15511
charlesb:

 

It would be foolish to object to an upper right quadrant approach per se, and inconsistent with the integral notion that occasions arise in a quadratic fashion.  The adopting of such an approach never occurred to me; rather i opted for an open-minded course in attempting to test Holosync. What i found was that to do so was beyond my means and that what partial tests i did attempt failed to produce results sufficient to continue the expensive testing. So i was left with no choice but to hold as an open question the efficacy of Holosync.

 



Hi Charles,

I take it you tried the first level but didn't see any results after six months? Well, there is no one formula that works for all...

Did you use the guarantee to get a full refund?

Pelle
Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15497.aspxSat, 25 Nov 2006 23:52:28 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15497charlesb0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15497.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15497

Hi Pelle,

 

It would be foolish to object to an upper right quadrant approach per se, and inconsistent with the integral notion that occasions arise in a quadratic fashion.  The adopting of such an approach never occurred to me; rather i opted for an open-minded course in attempting to test Holosync. What i found was that to do so was beyond my means and that what partial tests i did attempt failed to produce results sufficient to continue the expensive testing. So i was left with no choice but to hold as an open question the efficacy of Holosync.

 

The intent behind my original testing was to see if i could find a system that i could recommend to others; as of now, the best i can offer concerning Holosync is buyer beware; to say more would be less than generous.

 

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15494.aspxSat, 25 Nov 2006 21:36:40 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15494pelleB0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15494.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15494One thing I like about Holosync is that it is a hardcore UR tool, whereas most other tools for individual development reside in UL, for example meditation, psychotherapy, many other kinds of shadow and emotional work, etc

The ILP modules that I-I propose do touch base with the UR but only as a body module, not as a brain entrainment. The mind, spirit and shadow modules are all UL. Even the auxiliary modules in the ILP practice suggested by I-I show a strong left quadrant bias.

Left quadrant approaches are just fine of course, and have long traditions proving their extraordinary worth. But I suggest that a truly AQAL approach would include, or at least be open to, UR as well. These methods are usually much newer for obvious reasons, but I see no reason to discard them because of that.
Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15486.aspxSat, 25 Nov 2006 17:09:16 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15486charlesb0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15486.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15486

 

Hi JW,

 

Money spent on Genpo Roshi's DVD’s will be both an investment and a donation; an investment in your own spiritual adventure and a contribution to his work and the many it may influence; both of which i happily support.

 

A copy of the first DVD, Big mind/big heart revealed, came my way some time ago.  The more recent DVD, The path of the human being, came away with me at the conclusion of a five day Big Mind seminar with Genpo Roshi at the Shambhala Mountain Center in Colorado earlier this year.

 

Taken together the two DVD’s are a tour-de-force, inviting willing and committed participants to move in perspective, to be ‘unstuck’, and get a feel for the enlightened condition. My experience was that the first CD is roughly akin to the first five of the 10 ox herding pictures so famous in Zen; and the second is roughly akin to the final five. (Here is a link to a site that gives a quick over view of the pictures)

http://www.zip.com.au/~lyallg/Tenbulls.htm

 

Some months ago i began a thread here that went nowhere. It was an experiment in Bigmind; here's a link to it: http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/post/4558.aspx

 

What the DVD’s do not show is Genpo Roshi's extraordinary sensitivity, willingness, and ability to help people who are stuck in a self-limiting perspective. As i've written elsewhere in another context, a casual approach to this simply will not produce anything but casual results; better to approach them with the intense, playful, simplicity of a child, and let the chips fall where they may. 

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15475.aspxSat, 25 Nov 2006 13:52:25 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15475jwcargile0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15475.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15475

Charles,

I've been listening to Roshi and, I agree, I like him. I am thinking about investing or donating $80.00 for his CDs. Did you order them, and what was your experience?

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15442.aspxFri, 24 Nov 2006 14:14:32 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15442jwcargile0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15442.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15442I think what Pelle is trying to say that while Harris' marketing is a little excessive, Harris does try to give a relative score of each value assessed or made  known to the operator. I have heard Harris and Wilber exchanges, and I truly think Harris is making a sincere effort to give a higher value for lesser ones. The only drawback is the cost. I have used his Awakening Prologue -- The Dive and Immersion - for eight months. I am ready for the next level, but I am not going to spend thousands of dollars when I can forseeably create my own next level without exterior assistance. What is the highest value? I think you can answer that one.Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15338.aspxTue, 21 Nov 2006 22:29:25 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15338charlesb0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15338.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15338

Hi Pelle,

 

Thanks for the clarification it is very helpful to me.

 

Here we have an example of two viewpoints, two perspectives, each of which operates on a slightly different values system. But regardless of any differences, the operation of any such system needs to be very clear on one crucial point; that within a given system a relative score of each value be assessed or made known to the operator of the system. Then and only then is it possible to be clear about whether or not a sacrifice is being made, i.e. is a higher value being given up in favor of a lesser one? Regardless of one's system, sacrifice, when defined in this way, seems to be foolish if not a road to madness. Of course, to actually live this way, one has to be conscious of the relative value of every position one takes.

 

Taken to extreme, one needs to be able to answer this question. What is one's highest value?

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"  

 

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15280.aspxMon, 20 Nov 2006 14:14:44 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15280pelleB0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15280.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15280

Hi Charles,

I agree that Centerpointe's marketing can be insistent, offering you the next level of the program or giving you offers to buy other products. It is however quite simple to unsuscribe to their mailinglists and then you will be left alone.

It is also true that Holosync is not a cheap product. The first level costs $159 and subsequent levels probably around $100 more than that. But each level is a stand-alone product and you do not have to continue to the next level unless you want to. For me this is no different than buying an album from an artist and if I like it I will buy more albums, if not I won't. The difference being that Centerpointe offers a one-year money-back guarantee for the first level, something I do not get when buying an album.

Pelle

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15231.aspxSun, 19 Nov 2006 22:14:35 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15231charlesb0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15231.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15231

Hi Pelle,

 

I have no interest in being unkind to Mr. Harris, but for my taste, a less insistent, more straightforward marketing approach would be much more appealing than was my experience. In order to give Holosync a proper test it would be necessary to invest several thousands of dollars to buy all of the CDs that are available; in my case this was beyond my means and intent. Caveat emptor!

 

If someone with an interest in spiritual matters asked my opinion on where to invest their money in CDs and DVDs, i’d happily refer them to Genpo Roshi's unique blend of voice dialogue and Zen experience to be found  in, Big Mind/Heart Revealed and The Path of the Human Being; the quality captured in them inspired the following haiku:

 

Genpo Roshi is
Authentic, real and rare. Let
Your true nature speak!

 

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

 

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15221.aspxSun, 19 Nov 2006 17:14:36 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15221pelleB0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15221.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15221Hi Charles,

I'm wondering what marketing techniques have put people off? Could you fill me in?

And what alternative marketing approaches do you/all find would be suitable for a company such as Holosync?

Best wishes,

Pelle
Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15219.aspxSun, 19 Nov 2006 16:32:50 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15219charlesb0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15219.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15219

Hi JW,

 

There have been numerous threads about Bill Harris and Holosync. The consensus appeared to be mixed. Some here found his stuff to be valuable, others not; but most were put off by his marketing techniques, and as you have rightly noted it is expensive. My experience with Holosync was limited to testing it to find out if it had value; the return for investment on my part was so limited that i dropped the experiment.

 

Ken Wilber has had several conversations with Bill Harris, here are some links:

 

http://in.integralinstitute.org/talk.aspx?id=398

 

http://in.integralinstitute.org/talk.aspx?id=180

 

http://in.integralinstitute.org/talk.aspx?id=213

 

Warmly,

 

Charles

88W18'28" 41N58'02"

Re: Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15217.aspxSun, 19 Nov 2006 16:21:26 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15217pelleB0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15217.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15217Yeah I use Holosync, it's an excellent tool. I've been thinking about it lately in relation to Ken's insight that meditation cannot replace a shadow module. That insight seems sound to me when applied to traditional meditation, but I'm not so sure when it comes to Holosync. The progressive brain entrainment of Holosync IMO does reach down to the shadow, maybe not in the sense that it completely replaces a separate shadow practice, but a whole lot more than traditional contemplative practices.
Holosync Solutionhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15213.aspxSun, 19 Nov 2006 15:00:23 GMTee28e699-b6ce-41f9-9b68-f4b3d2b14a5b:15213jwcargile0http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/15213.aspxhttp://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/commentrss.aspx?SectionID=176&PostID=15213In my daily contemplative practice, usually around 4 a.m. in the morning, I have been using Bill Harris' Holosync Solution CDs. I have been using this software since the summer, and now it is time to upgrade to the next level. It is expensive, but I have found that you pay for what you want or get. I had been practicing other meditative techniques before I discovered Harris' Holosync Solution. Harris is the director of Centerpointe Research. You can find out more about Centerpointe Research on my website www.21stcenturyministries.com Anyone else used Holosync?