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Ken's New Book/s

Last post 08-02-2007, 7:13 PM by ralphweidner. 14 replies.
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  •  07-26-2007, 9:48 PM 26431

    Ken's New Book/s

    Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone has read Ken's new book Integral Vision yet. I know it's only just come out (?). More specifically I am wondering whether it's really worth buying now rather than waiting for it to come out in the collected works series - in light of the fact that some of his recent books - BHOE and TOE were barely worth reading for someone that is fairly familiar with his work (I have read about 18 or so of his books, including the major ones SES, EOS, ETE, Eden, Spectrum, atman, IP, IS, NB and everything he has written online - Boomeritis endnotes, volume 2 excerpts etc.)

    Cheers, and greetings from Perth, Western Australia (The most isolated city in the world - on the other side of that huge continent from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane)

    Mark.


    "The god you don't believe in I don't believe in either" - paraphrased from a statement by Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi - directed at Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and those holding similar views/beliefs.
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  •  07-26-2007, 10:55 PM 26433 in reply to 26431

    Re: Ken's New Book


    hey mark!

    it sounds like it's about time you wrote a book.

    ralph

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  •  07-27-2007, 1:07 PM 26452 in reply to 26431

    Re: Ken's New Book

    Welcome Mark:  If I were you,  I would work on all the things to read on this site first.   I assume you are new as in joining.  Also, personally, I would like to know how that group is doing, how often you meet and what happens .  I still find it so fascinating that we are all together here (We space) even if one is in the most isolated city in the world.   Wish I could visit.   I know it is beautiful.   Warmly Pattye
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  •  07-28-2007, 4:42 AM 26485 in reply to 26452

    Re: Ken's New Book

    Hi, thanks for the reply Pattye, but I didn't really mean the comment about Perth to be indicative of the fact that I was feeling particularly isolated. Although, you never know with the old sub/un/conscious.

     

    Not really new, just don't post often. I was really just interested in my question about Ken's new book being answered by someone. Don't take offence to that, but that was the outcome I had in mind.

     

    Also, if anyone knows about when Volume 2 is coming out that would be great too.

     

    Cheers

     


    "The god you don't believe in I don't believe in either" - paraphrased from a statement by Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi - directed at Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and those holding similar views/beliefs.
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  •  07-28-2007, 3:28 PM 26508 in reply to 26485

    Re: Ken's New Book

    Dear Mark:   Your picture does not express any such isolation.   I knew that you were speaking of the city of Perth, relatively speaking.   Some one will come along and give you some info, hopefully.   If I see anything, I will let you know.  When I saw your name, I thought you had been around, then I thought it was another Mark.

    From Sunny Florida.   Sometimes we feel like we are in another country also.

    Take Care Pattye

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  •  07-28-2007, 10:40 PM 26523 in reply to 26485

    Re: Ken's New Book

    hi mark,

    like you, i'd like to know more about this new book. amazon.com has a publisher's review, which gives us some idea: it sounds like introductory material. if it were done in a significantly new way, it could still be worth reading. i've read almost as much of his works as you, yet i still profited from reading the introduction to 'integral spirituality'.

    have you listened to the IN dialogue with michael murphy, in which ken relates that his rewrite of ToC has morphed into two new works: Overview and Superview? he said the first would be coming out in september, but i imagine that means september of next year.

    volume 2 would presumably come out after these two, and also after 'the many faces of terrorism' trilogy. more importantly, he has indicated in part 5 of the 'integral spirituality', ch.7 concall, apropos german idealism, that that is something people will be looking alot more into in the next decade. so there seems to be a method here, and a very long range one at that.

    i hope that helps,

    ralph

    p.s. i was seriously interested to learn in the previous message if you're doing any writing yourself. i remember you appearing on the ISC forums at about the time of the insane app. ii thread last summer and, then, disappearing just as quickly.

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  •  07-29-2007, 8:40 AM 26537 in reply to 26523

    Re: Ken's New Book

    thanks Ralph. Yeah, I did hear the Murphy dialogue but it didn't occur to me that Volume 2 would be after these two books. Listening to these two talk, aside from the mutual backslapping that is a bit much at times, is so inspiring to me it's sometimes unbearably ecstatic.

    Yeah, I really enjoyed the appendix II thread, it was insane, like you said, in a fun way.

    I disappeared and met a few Integral people in my city that were hiding, and started an Integral group here. I met one of them on this website, funnily enough, and have been grounding myself ever since and working seriously on the communal aspects of my being.

    I really want to write at times, I read a lot of philosophy/integral-related things (and when I do it only ever reinforces how utterly brilliant I consider Wilber's work to be), as well as having personal projects in the philosophy of medicine and... god, now private administrative law and jurisprudence - of course, can't just be happy with law, I have to meta- everything! Basically, the crux of the issue of not writing more is purely shadow and related blockages...damn it.

    Mark.

    Why do you feel like that in Florida? We get lots of American media over here but I don't watch any of it. What's with Florida?


    "The god you don't believe in I don't believe in either" - paraphrased from a statement by Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi - directed at Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and those holding similar views/beliefs.
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  •  07-29-2007, 8:10 PM 26567 in reply to 26431

    • ikarma is not online. Last active: 07-17-2008, 11:15 PM ikarma
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    Re: Ken's New Book/s

    I got my copy(s) of The Integral Vision a few days ago and have read it through twice already.  It's my favorite Wilber book so far.  Not because it blazes any new paths, but rather because it doesn't.  "The Integral Vision" is basically "Integral For Dummies".  Smart writers write smart books.  But the smartest writers write smart books that can be read and understood by the average Joe.  Ken Wilber finally understands that the average Joe doesn't, but that part of being Integral means finding a way to explain things so that he does.   Integral Vision is a book that has been needed for a very long time.  It's the first book where Wilber actually practices what he preaches by writing a book that is accessible to all readers at all lines, levels states and stages.  Integral Vision is a beautifully put together intro to Integral thought and ideas.  It gives the best overview so far of anything I've read.  This is a book that you could give to any friend and family member over the age of 10 and they'll get a real understanding of what Integral is and where it is going.  It only takes an hour to read, so people you give it to might actually read it (unlike those copies of SES you've been giving out) and they will do so without hating you for making them slog through pages of Wilberspeak to get to the point.

    I came to Integral from a very Orange perspective.  My initial interest in Integral had more to do with finding a way to fill in the blanks in systems theory and game theory, than any desire for personal growth or enlightenment.  The personal enlightenment was just something that happened along the way.  LOL  Not to say I was totally unenlightened before, but I like the idea of Orange jumping past Green to 2nd Tier.  It may seem like an uncommon path.  (Greedy Businessman sees "knowing one's customer" as a tactic for greater profits.  Greedy businessman discovers love for customer as he gets to really know them.  Greedy businessman becomes enlightened through greater integral understanding of his oneness with the customer and the universe.)  But I think it can happen.   LOL  I mention this because The Integral Vision is also a book that you could give to the average businessperson without scaring them away.  Personally, I tried to get people at work to read a little Wilber and it got me branded as a crazy cult member.  You should have heard the hoots and hollers around my office when they saw that Ken had a shaved head and was naked on his website (www.KenWilber.com ).  I fully expect to hand out about a hundred copies of Integral Vision over the next 12 month, if only so people stop thinking I'm in a cult.


    Peace & Prosperity

    Paul Williams
    http://Paul.ikarma.com
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  •  07-29-2007, 11:09 PM 26578 in reply to 26567

    Re: Ken's New Book/s

    This is great news, actually amazing news.  Thanks for the tip.  I do understand what you go through at work.   I have and I did at work and at home most of my life. Ken Wilber was just the latest after Carl Jung 15 years ago   Ram Dass did not go over too well and once when I came home from a seminar, I was trying to talk about it at the dinner table.  My oldest son who was in college at the time said, "Sounds like a bunch of old people sitting around smoking dope and eating yogurt, Mom."  At least they kept me grounded.   Finally TOE worked some and someday they will have all the stuff left around when I die and they are starting to go through life stages where the glamour has worn off and I get  more respect for many reasons.    At least you have Stuart Davis to let your daughter intern for.  But then people at work are not going to care much about that until he gets really famous as is predicted. And maybe not then unless they are 19.

    So I cannot wait to get the book .  Ken is pretty great when he is teaching and the Q and  A sessions has helped a lot.  Just can't get all the questions ask.

    I appreciated your views with Author but I just have more questions.  Like when he was working with Lindsey and Nomali, did that come from being ask to do that or did it evolve. He said, "I was working with them" I guess he  had to have some permission.  It does make me realize how much there is that I don't know since I was out of the Loop for a few years because I literally could not read the white on black background without major eye strain.  Today it works after having cataracts removed.  I paid my dues all those years and checked in on what I could.   Did I understand correctly that everything was lost or wiped out?   In those dark ages, I wonder why they did not print for themselves because there were so many losing stuff on all kinds of crashed computers etc.  I had a couple of other questions but have forgotten for now.  My main point is we have not been able to see how it is going to go yet.  So new.  Glad to know about the new book.  Thanks Pattye     PS If I think of those questions and still feel I need to ask, I will send a PM.

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  •  07-29-2007, 11:59 PM 26580 in reply to 26567

    Re: Ken's New Book/s

    Thanks for the great post Paul. Pleased to hear that you recommend it.

    Yes, I have had similar experiences, but trying to convince friends that study philosophy at postgrad level at uni that he would be worth reading, and it can be difficult. He is often referred to as a "new-age philosopher" which, aside from being an oxymoron (!) is obviously not very accurate.

    Funny you say that about Orange to Second Tier. Check out Ken Wilber's Boomeritis Sidebar C: Orange and Green levels or cousins? (from wilber.shambhala.com)- this might be interesting to you, if you haven't seen it already:

    ""Many of you know about an important disagreement that Jenny Wade has with Spiral Dynamics, namely, whether orange and green are two different stages of development or whether they are two different paths through the same stage of development (see her book, Changes of Mind ). Both Don Beck and Jenny Wade are members of IC, so it's an in-house friendly disagreement...

    "Jenny points out that one of the first things that happens when people study Spiral Dynamics is that many of them say, 'This model sounds very good, except I don't think I ever went through green. I don't have a green bone in my body!' And it's true--many people who are clearly second tier just don't seem to possess much green--not as SD defines it, that is..."

    Mark


    "The god you don't believe in I don't believe in either" - paraphrased from a statement by Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi - directed at Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and those holding similar views/beliefs.
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  •  07-31-2007, 12:08 AM 26646 in reply to 26567

    Re: Ken's New Book/s


    paul,

    where did you get your copy from? amazon says it won't be releasing it until august 14th.

    ralph

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  •  07-31-2007, 10:03 PM 26689 in reply to 26646

    • ikarma is not online. Last active: 07-17-2008, 11:15 PM ikarma
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    Re: Ken's New Book/s

    Amazon doesn't have them yet but the publisher www.shambhala.com does.

    Here's a link to the order page.

    http://www.shambhala.com/html/catalog/items/isbn/978-1-59030-475-4.cfm


    Peace & Prosperity

    Paul Williams
    http://Paul.ikarma.com
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  •  07-31-2007, 10:18 PM 26690 in reply to 26580

    • ikarma is not online. Last active: 07-17-2008, 11:15 PM ikarma
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    Re: Ken's New Book/s

    Hey Mark,

    Yes, I've read Boomeritis and noticed that quote.  I was disapointed in the book though.  I felt a bit insulted that Ken felt the need to bait the reader along with lame sexual banter.  I understand his desire to inject AQAL into a novel as a way to get the word out about Integral.  But I think it would have been so much better had he injected it into a SciFi storyline rather than teen sex comedy. 

    I also noticed that your tag line includes a Richard Dawkins quote.  If you get a chance you should check out the books by Sam Harris (The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation) and the one by Daniel Dennett (Breaking The Spell).  Dawkins seems to be getting most of the attention but the books by these other two writers were so much better in my opinion.  Sam did an interview with Stuart Davis for Integral Naked that is available here online and he also has a media section on his website at www.SamHarris.org with more great info. 

    Peace


    Peace & Prosperity

    Paul Williams
    http://Paul.ikarma.com
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  •  07-31-2007, 11:06 PM 26693 in reply to 26689

    Re: Ken's New Book/s

    thanks, paul. i checked kenwilber.com, but didn't think to check shambhala. you've won my vote that it's a great introductory book (great illustrations, as simple and immediate language as possible), although i suspect it might require more altitude and a higher c.o.g. than you suggest, and, coincidentally, that you might have been at a higher altitude than you yourself thought.

    i can add to what mark said. KW, in effect, arbitrated the dispute between don beck and jenny wade, pointing out, appropriately, that each was right, within limits--in particular, that just as we cannot skip including, say, the second floor, in constructing a multi-story building, we cannot skip stages, although there are different ways to go through them, in particular, a more masculine and a more feminine way. jenny's point, as interpreted by KW, was that she had not gone through green in the feminine way typical of our times, but a more masculine way, which could easily be confused with orange. i suspect that's what you did, too.

    unfortunately, don was apparently not able to accept that jenny could be right, even with this limitation. so much for integral SD!

    ralph

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  •  08-02-2007, 7:13 PM 26807 in reply to 26580

    Re: Ken's New Book/s


    incidentally, joe perez, author of the second integral book to be published (following 'integral spirituality'), has begun another thread (Reviews and thoughts o...) introducing his review of 'the integral vision', as well as the three chapters from 'the many faces of terrorism' made available at kenwilber.com. with regard to the latter, he writes:

    How persuasive the analysis will be to contemporary analysts of politics remains to be seen. Unfortunately for new readers, Wilber's analysis is dependent on a depth of vision that is not found either in the terrorism excerpts or in The Integral Vision. The political theory does not seem fully fleshed out as a presentation in itself, but rather an invitation to approach a deeper study of the entire Integral method. Ever the unapologetic generalist, Wilber is content to discuss examples of major philosophers such as Rousseau and Nietzsche, but without exploring the complexities and subtleties of their work. It's as if he's writing the Preface to a much longer intellectual history of political theory, one that would likely be completed -- if it is completed at all -- by his students or colleagues.



    gregory wilpert has written several articles on integral politics for aqal journal and indicated he is also working on a book from that pov, all of which together might satisfy some of joe's misgivings?

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