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Comments on IS Call on "Integral Post-Metaphysics":4

Last post 10-21-2007, 11:21 AM by ralphweidner. 3 replies.
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  •  10-13-2007, 11:27 AM 29936

    • richardneff is not online. Last active: 10-14-2007, 12:33 AM richardneff
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    Comments on IS Call on "Integral Post-Metaphysics":4

    Please join our discussion of IS Call on "Integral Post-Metaphysics":4. All members of ISC are invited to join the conversation. If you are an ISC member, simply reply to this post with your comments. Not a member of ISC? Visit us and join now!
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  •  10-17-2007, 9:29 PM 30208 in reply to 29936

    Re: Comments on IS Call on "Integral Post-Metaphysics":4

    yes sirreee it's absolutely fuckin brilliant Wink [;)]

    to have worked it out that supermind is the highest level at any given era .. it perfectly explains how enlightened beings existed throughout evolution

     

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  •  10-20-2007, 8:44 AM 30362 in reply to 29936

    Re: Comments on IS Call on "Integral Post-Metaphysics":4

    Just a couple of double takes here. In the closing portions of this discussion Ken queries on the ultimate social function of "green" if/when "teal" is able to exert substantial influence in the social order. He rightfully notes that in order for a more inclusive worldview to shape a culture it must make room or a place for the less inlcusive perspectives which preceed its own emergence. All is fine to this point. But, in quickly noting the current "place" in the orange dominated cultures for amber as "fundamentalist" and red as "gang members" Ken falls out of his integral perspective. These are generalized statements that are not neccessarily supported by the facts.

    First of all not all amber institutions, beliefs, and world views are fundamentalist. Secondly, with the juxtaposition of street gangs for red and fundamentalist for amber Ken subtlety implies a similarity between the two. Easily done since many people conflate fundamentalism with the radical fundamentalism that fuels terrorist activity. Third, not all red manifestations and viewpoints can be defined by the street gang image (in fact I theorize that street gangs are not a red phenomena at all but a varient in amber resulting from the successful marginalization of amber religion by organge) Ken has given what he sees as unhealthy exhibitions of red and amber as general descriptions of these levels in present day society. Finally, in making such general statements about these levels he glosses over the fact that we can all be (and indeed are) at various levels in different developmental lines.

    None of this would matter much if Ken were not such an influential individual. But he is, and these off handed and disparging remarks in regards to other levels of development are not helpful in promoting the integral model. To begin with it is by Ken's own definition not an integral viewpoint. Integral sees and acknowledges the very real strengths and continued contributions of each level; by individuals and groups functioning primarily at any level and individuals and groups utilizing the healthy qualities of these levels for some particular task or situation. You can see the effect of these remarks bleed through sometimes in these forums with sometimes veiled and sometimes outright predujudice or overly generalized statements concerning 1st tier levels. I know in my heart that Ken does not overtly support such predjudice but sometimes in his interactions with others he seems to fall into an orange mindset, perhaps out of habit. Whether or not he cares to look into this is not my concern. I am more interested in prodding anyone exposed to these gaffs to look more closely and not inadvertently absorb some very unhelpful opinions and attitudes.

    Respectfully,

    Jerry Sherwood

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  •  10-21-2007, 11:21 AM 30418 in reply to 30208

    Re: Comments on IS Call on "Integral Post-Metaphysics":4

    fairyfaye:
    to have worked it out that supermind is the highest level at any given era .. it perfectly explains how enlightened beings existed throughout evolution
    and also reintroduces the old problem of stacking one kind of level on top of another!! isn't it implied that, at one time, it was possible to go from red directly to 3rd tier, without passing through the rest of 1st tier or though 2nd tier; and, then, at a later date, from amber directly to 3rd tier, and so on? it sounds to me like a new dimension needs to be added to aqal, what might be called an historical dimension, which would take into account the apparent fact that, today, 3rd tier is best entered from the 2nd tier, whereas in times past, when 2nd tier did not yet exist, or only existed as potential, 3rd tier could only be entered from 1st tier.

    maybe you will hear more about this at ISC3!? better yet, i'm looking forward to reading 'overview' and 'superview' someday Wink [;)]

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