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Comments on Traleg Rinpoche and Ken Wilber: 1

Last post 09-25-2006, 6:55 AM by vajrayogini. 4 replies.
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  •  09-23-2006, 7:32 AM 8979

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    Comments on Traleg Rinpoche and Ken Wilber: 1

    Please join our discussion of Traleg Rinpoche and Ken Wilber: 1. All members of ISC are invited to join the conversation. If you are an ISC member, simply reply to this post with your comments. Not a member of ISC? Visit us and join now!
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  •  09-24-2006, 12:40 PM 9172 in reply to 8979

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    Re: Comments on Traleg Rinpoche and Ken Wilber: 1

    I just listened to the audio of this interchange between Ken Wilber and Traleg Rinpoche. Beyond that, I do not know their interchange. My comment arises from Ken's last comments captured in the audio about emptyness.

    Our concepts of emptyness may evolve or change, but emptyness itself is formless, has no coming, no going, no origination. So how can one imply it is bound in a form that changes.  How does non origination change?

    Making the case of a "formed" emptyness is a dangerous characterization of Buddhist concept of emptyness and framing a debate on this seems to abuse the notion of the myth of the given or what may simply be known as the construct.  Buddhism is not stages or states of emptyness but profound depth of understanding of thusness which includes emptyness, formlessness, non duality and a stagelessness of state. If I were to characterize Buddhism it would be that it embraces the quest for knowledge, insight, understanding and concern to convey to help. Buddhism lives in a context; it is anything but when put in a cage (form). It is not emptyness as unchanging form fixed in some stage. That is nihilism.

    Thank you.
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  •  09-24-2006, 8:06 PM 9204 in reply to 8979

    Re: Comments on Traleg Rinpoche and Ken Wilber: 1

    if emptiness is none other than form and form is none other than emptiness ... where does that leave emptiness when form is continuously evolving ?? that seems to be the point here

     

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  •  09-24-2006, 10:10 PM 9216 in reply to 9204

    Re: Comments on Traleg Rinpoche and Ken Wilber: 1

    All things are together in Action,
    But I look into their Non-action,
    For things are continuously moving, restless,
    Yet each is proceeding back to its origin.
    Proceeding back to the origin means Quiescence.
    To be in Quiescence is to see "Being-for-itself"

    -Tao Te Ching
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  •  09-25-2006, 6:55 AM 9233 in reply to 9204

    Re: Comments on Traleg Rinpoche and Ken Wilber: 1

    emptiness is left exactly where is has always been.

    nowhere (because it is empty)

    and

    everywhere (because it is inseperable from form)

    we need to have an understanding of the union of these two things no fall into the trap of the two extremes of existence or nonexistance.


    the two truths are not the same, they are two, not one, but they are just totally inseperable from each other. it is impossible to have a non-empty form (if there was one it would be inherantly existant) and it's impossible to have emptiness without it being the emptiness of some form.

    there is of course the emptiness of emptiness - but that's a whole other headache!!!


    perhaps stating it this way, "there is no form other than emptiness and there is no emptiness other than form", makes it a little clearer?


    I think Ken is spot on here and I hope this is taken up in future excerpts... I wish I'd been there... did anyone reading this go? Care to share your notes and experiences?

    V


    "May the sufferings and negativites of living beings ripen upon me,
    And may my happiness and virtue ripen upon them" - Nagarjuna
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