Re: Blue Greens...
Embodied Practice
Thread Starter: Valentrs
Started: 07-29-2006 11:05 AM
Replies: 8

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  29 Jul 2006, 11:05 AM
Valentrs is not online. Last active: 10/29/2007 6:39:56 AM Valentrs

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Blue Greens...
Hi, My name is Ryan, I've been an integral naked member for about a year but this is my first posting on the forum. I just finished my third or fourth reading of Boomeritise and had a strange thought pertaining to Spiral Dynamics I wanted to get some feedback about. As the center of gravity of a culture moves through the spiral, is it possible that people who appear to be "green" could actually be "blue"? In other words could the vmeme "my culture, right or wrong" include things that would appear to be multicultural? Sort of made my head spin when I first thought of it, any response or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advanced,
Ryan
  
  29 Jul 2006, 8:14 PM
geomo is not online. Last active: 3/20/2007 6:17:17 AM geomo



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Re: Blue Greens...
Good question, Ryan. I was thinking along those lines today, and, speaking of lines, my conclusion was that the pathological/repressed blue meme could infect someone who has a green center of gravity. I see it really blatantly in political association. I also see that a lot of pre-rational positioning goes along with the blue in such cases, which to the subject might seem to be trans-rational. Maybe the pre-trans fallacy is at work there along with the shadow blue.

Peace

Keith
 
    
  31 Jul 2006, 10:48 AM
RKRKRK is not online. Last active: 9/20/2006 9:31:52 AM RKRKRK

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Re: Blue Greens...
Hi valentrs and welcome!

Of course there are all sorts of different levels of consciousness attainment, lines of development, pathologies, unresolved personal issues in all persons, so this likely does occur here to some extent and at all levels.

What would differentiate healthy green however, would be the inclusion of healthy hierarchy from blue AND the inclusion of healthy science from orange.  Blue is not capable, by definition, of regarding scientific findings as a basis for new values and is locked into traditional pre-scientific approaches that are outdated and dangerous.  Nor is blue capable of understanding and integrating the green values of tolerance, equality, interconnectedness, universal social/economic justice, sacredness of all beings, etc. 

Blue and orange are also incapable of understanding or expressing adequate levels of compassion for the planet, all beings and phenomena...........these limitations of blue and orange are why the dominant paradigm is collapsing today with increasing rapidity as we watch.  The collapse will either result in a hard, moderate or soft landing, depending on how quickly the values of the green stage (and policies based on them) can be implemented............but the collapse is inevitable if we are to continue progressing and evolving as individuals and as a collective.

R.K.


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  31 Jul 2006, 12:49 PM
Mascha is not online. Last active: 10/1/2007 1:05:29 AM Mascha



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Re: Blue Greens...

Good god, R.K.!! Before the collapse of the known world order (and before my login conks out again), I just have to tell you how much I appreciate your writings. Will you be posting on MichaelD's newly minted Heartmind forum as well? Wherever you roam, I'm all ears... resonating with a deep, dark yes...... tell me more......



Mascha
 
    
  01 Aug 2006, 9:32 AM
RKRKRK is not online. Last active: 9/20/2006 9:31:52 AM RKRKRK

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Re: Blue Greens...
Hi Mascha,

Thanks for the kind words...........I haven't checked out MichealD's new forum yet and have just made my first posts on the new IN forum (#3).  Are you going to hang out there also?

R.K.


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  01 Aug 2006, 4:49 PM
Mascha is not online. Last active: 10/1/2007 1:05:29 AM Mascha



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Re: Blue Greens...
R.K.,

Two times already I've written lengthy epistles to you - then hit preview --- and poof..... you know the rest. The short version:

It's like finally being able to sit back and let someone else do the speaking, explaining, research etc. -- simply because you do a better job of saying what I mean than I can do myself right now. I keep being stunned into speechlessness......... And the rest of the time I'm reduced to babbling (coherently, I think), because I can see all viewpoints at once.

Anyway, here's a link to the HeartMind forum to entice you and others to check it out:

heartmind.integralvisioning.org

And yes, I also just made my first post to the new I Naked site, joining the symphony of well-wishing Ken on his road to recovery.

M


 
    
  02 Aug 2006, 7:48 AM
RKRKRK is not online. Last active: 9/20/2006 9:31:52 AM RKRKRK

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Re: Blue Greens...
Hey Mascha,

Sorry to have missed the epistles!   For some reason the system often times out during composition..........so what I do (maybe there is also a better way) is copy anything I compose prior to attempting to post it..........then you just go back into the thread, hit reply, then paste..........

Yes, seeing all viewpoints can result in being overwhelmed sometimes, yet I think what one needs to do is to focus on one's core values (as one knows them through their Higher-Self) and do whatever one can to have those values become manifest in the world. 

For me, my work is expanding an emerging green values system while blue/orange systems continue to fail and regress (and certainly a big part of that work is pointing out that blue/orange are necessary but inadequate for the problems we face today even in their most healthy forms, and are in fact are causing the massive problems we are facing). 

I also employ yellow and turquoise values and techniques when possible, though avoid the trap of being immobilized by seeing the truths of everyones' v-meme levels, by holding fast to the truth that society needs to progress through green before any further progress is possible.

R.K.




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  02 Aug 2006, 11:33 PM
Mascha is not online. Last active: 10/1/2007 1:05:29 AM Mascha



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Re: Blue Greens...
 RKRKRK wrote:
Yes, seeing all viewpoints can result in being overwhelmed sometimes, yet I think what one needs to do is to focus on one's core values (as one knows them through their Higher-Self) and do whatever one can to have those values become manifest in the world.


My apologies to Valentrs for taking this thread into the cul-de-sac where I live.

R.K., you nailed my predicament in the above quote. On the one hand, I don't want to move from where I'm at - dammit, I've arrived, I'm whole, complete, free to just BE........ On the other hand, I must do something with this horrendous pile of accumulated 'wisdom' or express just a fraction of the range that has opened itself up for me to cavort in.

But what can I do? For a very long time, I simply shut up and disappeared from almost everyone's radar screen.

Now I find myself talking again here and there...... Even forum participation is a new and somewhat doubtful pleasure to me. A small pain is being aware of singling you out for praise, R.K., ripping a tiny tear, perhaps, in the subtle fabric of "all-of-us-together & equally loved-around-here". Ouch.

As for Spiral Dynamics and other maps/views - just one more language I'd have to learn and then forget....? Except... the way you put it into context makes immediate, intuitive sense to me. I guess the upshot of this rambling rave is this: I want to be useful but don't know how. I trust y'all will teach me.

Mascha


 
    
  03 Aug 2006, 7:45 AM
RKRKRK is not online. Last active: 9/20/2006 9:31:52 AM RKRKRK

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Re: Blue Greens...
Hey Mascha,

As for Spiral Dynamics and other maps/views - just one more language I'd have to learn and then forget....? Except... the way you put it into context makes immediate, intuitive sense to me. I guess the upshot of this rambling rave is this: I want to be useful but don't know how. I trust y'all will teach me.


Yes, I believe the combination of the SDi v-meme model of societal development and the AQAL model of interior (subjective) and exterior (objective) perspectives ARE important for truly understanding phenomena in this world and beyond.  While such models have been around for sometime in different forms, the exqusite combination of them by integralists is a new development and the most powerful tool I have ever come across...........I believe it IS worth the time and trouble to learn and use.

How we use it and other tools is a very individualized path..........but exploring, developing and treading our paths, IMO, is why we are here........

Two of my favorite Wilber books that have helped me develop my path are No Boundary (which provides a great spiritual context for the tools) and The Theory of Everything (which goes into more detail about the context and the models......especially SDi, memes and value systems).

With respect,

R.K. 




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