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Discipline without seeking

Last post 03-31-2007, 9:10 AM by pattye. 4 replies.
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  •  01-13-2007, 12:16 PM 18172

    Discipline without seeking

    Hello there, friends in integral spirituality:
    Last year, on one call or other, I heard Ken speak about "discipline-without-seeking".  This is the exploration that is my number one "goal" for 2007.  If anyone has some insights about what this means, please share.  I intuit what it might mean...for me in the moment it means taking the action or step that feels most intuitively clear, that evokes the least contraction in terms of a felt-sense.  And, it seems to have much to do with trust.

    Best wishes,

    Durwin Foster, M.A.
    Doctoral Student, Counselling Psychology Program
    University of British Columbia
    Vancouver, Canada
  •  02-22-2007, 12:53 PM 19585 in reply to 18172

    Re: Discipline without seeking

    Dear Durwin:  Two things come to mind.  The last chapter of Eye of the Spirit which is titled  "Always Already".  He brings this into some of his other book but it seems it is always poetic/mystical when he speaks of this.  I am not sure.

    Also he made the statement once that you did not have to read all of his stuff any-more that you "had " to ride in his jeep if he invited you.  I questioned it then and since Integral Spirituallity came out, I question it more.  There seems to be some other thought trying to come up.  If I think of them, I will write again.  Good Luck on your research.    Love Pattye

  •  02-23-2007, 5:00 AM 19598 in reply to 19585

    Re: Discipline without seeking

    Hi Durwin ..... Pattye

    This is really a reply that encompases what each of you have brought to the table on this topic. First, I must say, to me this is a very exciting topic to see on this forum. It goes right to the heart of the matter and even touches on Ken's recent talk with i-u students concerning translation and transformation.

    Pattye ... imo, you are on the money in seeing the relationship between this "Discipline without seeking" and "That which is always, already present". That is because any notion of "seeking" must come from a mental position of finding something that is missing and "That which is always, already present" cannot by definition be missing. So, to seek is to already miss the mark.

    Durwin ..... What you intuit relates to the Discipline aspect of the formula. And wonderfully so I might add. To seek to take action in each moment from a place of maximum clarity (to paraphrase your description) is free from many of the trappings of more traditional instructions, but perhaps not available to most individuals caught up in the reactionary patterns of cultural conditioning. The form of discipline you describe, in my experience, arises naturally as an evolution of any spiritual discipline practiced and held with the attitude of "non-seeking". Therefore, even your proposed form of discipline would be subject to missing the mark if there is an element of discovering something new to be added to your way of being.

    inmmho, it is a matter of subtraction not addition. Even to seek to find and bring into your practice an attitude of non-seeking is to seek. The most important instruction is to always start from where you are already; from where else could one start Smile [:)] From this place simply turn the focus of awareness to all the ways in which you are seeking. Do not add anything else to that awareness, no condemnation, no affirmations to change ...  nothing. Just see into it as thoroughly as awareness will penetrate and let the inherant (sp?) intelligence of true nature to do what it will.

    That is all the time I have this morning .... I hope to find some time this Saturday to return to the topic of translation/transformation on the "frothy edge" forum and will relate what I am saying here to that question.


  •  02-23-2007, 8:47 AM 19605 in reply to 18172

    Re: Discipline without seeking

    Happy Friday Durwin,


    Try substituting the word ‘aim’ for the word ‘goal’ to see if it obviates the need for quotes around either.


    Talking about this is not easy. Others have tried; but at best these efforts are but ‘fingers pointing to the moon’. The Chinese sages called it wu-wei (action without action); Krishnamurti called it ‘Choiceless Awareness’.


    And at risk of folly i’ll add this haiku:


    Beyond Sympathy and Criticism


    The Way is not so

    Difficult; if we but give

    Up our need to choose.





    88W18'28" 41N58'02"

  •  03-31-2007, 9:10 AM 21300 in reply to 19598

    Re: Discipline without seeking

    Dear Benachad:   I think bigdaddy left the building.  I  checked back here a time or two and then got distracted.  Hope you check back again.  I feel we can get this thread going.   It is one of the most important subjects to me.   Later Pattye
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