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Please help me!! am quite desperate

Last post 12-02-2007, 12:49 PM by desrice. 41 replies.
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  •  10-09-2007, 7:44 AM 29693

    Please help me!! am quite desperate

    Usually I can write posts much more 'cerberal' than the following, but I am under such severe stress and emotional upheveal in the recent weeks\months I am just writing out of fragility... I will try to be short as I can tough,.,

    I am finding myself so ridiculisouly stuck for the past several years in my life with serious problems. What happens is that I go through phases of having my mind off my issues, but then they come viciously back at me, as terrifying dreams, fatigue, depression, and being stressed from anything, as well as the usual pornography addiction.

    This is all symptomatic to what seems a deep rooted sense of being utterly lonely. Unfortunately, 'extrenal' events such as a series of personal disasters and inability to form any stability in my life (stable job\partner or even friends) for the past recent years make the matter much worse.
    I fear this is so deep that I 'radiate' it even in occassion I  try my best to look good and purpusly be lighthearted. The collapse really began with my mother's death at me being 17, followed by a series of other rejections from friends and the disintegration of my family following this tragedy none of us seemed to cope well with.
    Since then, although I've spend probably many hundreds of hours in therapy, journal writing, and soul searching, I really sense that, its as if I just can't find my relevant-ness to this world, unable to form mutual relationships of any sort, probably my inherent grief the basic reason for that.

    I do not know what to do. I mean, I have a entire library of self help books I really value, but, it seems my 'center of gravity' is very very low and I can't sustain much higher. That is, following a certain practice is probably the most challanging for me, because it seems I can't concentrate or focus on it for too long, otherwise it becomes another stressful chore.... (sounds familiar??)

    Recently I've admitted voluntarily to a psychiatric day-centre  at the local hospital but it doesn't help much, as its a very unorganized, random sort of place that gives me no sense that I am being taken care of.

    And sometime coping with this not-knowing is simply too painful. I know that by myself- and unfortunately I am really, really by myself now- I can't overcome this. Those close to me (very few) are ultra-liberal and not of the proactive sort of 'pushers'....and I am really losing faith in the ability of talk-therapy to assist me in actual change (rather than awareness to).
    Please any kind of response, what you think I will be happy to listen to

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  •  10-09-2007, 2:02 PM 29704 in reply to 29693

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    there can be much suffering by exclusively identifying with the separate self .. perhaps u could try some meditation techniques to help expand your sense of identity ?

    walks thru nature can be very helpful in that u may discover that u are that tree and that breeze and that sky


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  •  10-09-2007, 2:21 PM 29706 in reply to 29704

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    When I was living abroad I did intuitively went for alot of walks in nature, almost daily, and it indeed helped me alot. Unfortunately I am now living in a very urban, crowded place with little environmental awareness and many times "taking a walk outside" means a walking through a maze of avoiding cigarette smokes and people's dogs (there are way too many dog owners here). I get really stressed- I don't feel as safe (not because of securiy issues) outside here.

    Meditation-wise- especially sustained practice... is very difficult for me to sustain or begin. Also, I think my issues are really about the "we" part-- i.e. where do I fit in society, forming relationship, having a more rooted 'doing' identity versus of 'being'. But I agree, practising deep breath and the potential for increased concentration would be really helpful.

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  •  10-10-2007, 6:14 AM 29738 in reply to 29706

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    Hi G,


    I have a suggestion for you, but first let's see if you might be interested in it. It has to do with a sense of inquiry. Consider for a moment how important inquiry really is, and how vital it is in many disciplines; for example Ramana Maharshi, employed inquiry in his famous suggestion, “Who am I?”; and what is a Zen koan other than another form of inquiry; it is seen again in a more modern form being developed by Genpo Roshi in the Big Mind process.


    So my suggestion involves another form of inquiry, one based on text. To employ it you will need to add another book to your library. It's not exactly a self-help book; but is rather one of the great treasures of the sacred literature of the world. The ancient sages of Taoism developed this text calling it the Book of Changes, otherwise known as the I Ching. Since 1950 several excellent translations into English have been made available. The one i recommend most is entitled, The Complete I Ching, by Alfred Huang; second on my list is the classic, I Ching, by Wilhelm/Baynes; third on the list is the literal translation by John Blofeld.


    Here's how it works; begin to form a question in your mind, and write it down. It's best to use some sort of journal so you can note the (dated) entry of each possible question. It's perfectly okay to be skeptical about the process, but there is one quality that must be brought to the inquiry in order to obtain a meaningful result. It is as simple as it is vital, that quality is sincerity. In other words you must really have an interest in an answer to your inquiry.


    Unlike other texts this one employs certain rituals that will direct the inquirer to that part of the text that is germane to the question. The ritual i suggest is very simple and i can explain it to you in about five minutes. All you need is three coins of the same denomination, which ideally are only used for this purpose.


    By way of introduction to the system allow me to make another suggestion; before you go to the trouble and expense of a obtaining one of the above suggested texts maybe you'd like to try to form a question, perform the ritual, (which i can describe) and post both the question and the resulting divination here and i'll be happy to respond with comments.


    However, to get a real feel for this process is going to take some time, so i recommend in addition to what ever testing of the system that appeals to you, that you employ this process on a daily basis, using this question, what furthers for today? Then you can simply watch during the day to see if there is a correlation between the results of your divination and the events of your day.


    Over time and through testing it is easily possible using this technique to develop a sense of being in contact with a sage-like entity, which (who) always has your long term best interests at heart, and is always available.


    One could say that this is the divine in second person, and the mechanics of the divination ritual is the divine in third person; and you, of course, are the divine in first person.





    88W18'28" 41N58'02"







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  •  10-10-2007, 8:20 AM 29743 in reply to 29706

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    taking walks in urban crowded areas can be just as holy as strolling thru nature .. wherever u are is sacred ground

    and especially since your suffering is in regards to how u relate within the we-space

    see that child's face ? is it not a flower ? see that old man's grin ? is it not a big old tree ? see how everybody's eyes reflect back your very self ?

    true meditation is not some grueling grind .. but simple awareness



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  •  10-10-2007, 9:11 AM 29746 in reply to 29738

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    Dear charles,
    that is such a coincedence. I own Alfred Huang's text, but have yet to read it in depth, and was considering joining a i ching training class that relies on the numeric structures rather than the traditional chinese imagery ('bride carrying bull through muddy river'- i just made that up, though).
    Have you used the I ching? has it been relevant- I know some of the text looks quite obscure to me..

    Dear Fairyfaye- it's an interesting thought. I never thought of this. To be honest, I get really easily disgusted by people. I am not psychic  but I can 'read' their  imbalances often, and it makes me nervous at times. But definately, children are flowers..

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  •  10-10-2007, 9:47 AM 29750 in reply to 29746

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    Hi G,


    Marvelous! The Huang version is a treasure!


    There is a famous science fiction book of some decades ago called Fahrenheit 451. It's set in a strange future where the fire department -as an arm of an oppressive state actually burns books. Faced with this cultural intellectual catastrophe an underground of book lovers gradually arises; and forbidden the use of the printing press they memorize or make their own or ‘grok’ the texts that they love. If i were faced by such a calamity the book i would choose is the I Ching.


    It said that Confucius wore the covers off of his copy more than once in his lifetime; i've done that and more. I taught myself to write computer code in an attempt to use it as part of the divinatory process referred to in my last post. Eventually this meant that the entire text of the I Ching had to be condensed to suit the memory needs of that early computer. I called it the Concise Oracle of Change, and it is based on tens of thousands of divinations that i have performed and experienced.  All that took place decades ago, who knows; by this time the number of divinations is likely to be many hundreds of thousands.


    I vividly remember the initial thrill of seeing how one situation changes into the other via its use; and it's worth adding that aligning oneself with the motion of change is both exquisite and part of my daily integral life practice, and not the least effect of so doing is an undermining of any sense of personal alienation.





    88W18'28" 41N58'02"




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  •  10-10-2007, 11:04 AM 29759 in reply to 29693

    • jacinda is not online. Last active: 11-19-2007, 8:40 AM jacinda
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    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    hello g,

    this part of your post is very intuitive.....  

    "And sometime coping with this not-knowing is simply too painful. I know that by myself- and unfortunately I am really, really by myself now- I can't overcome this. and I am really losing faith in the ability of talk-therapy to assist me.
    Please any kind of response, what you think I will be happy to listen to"

    Speaking from my personal experience...Eckhart Tolle's Living the Liberated Life and Dealing With the Pain Body [UNABRIDGED] (Audio CD)* was very crucial in shifting my beliefs about self and suffering....and what really stands out about Eckhart Tolle's teaching for me is his reference to "natural meditaion".  "Natural meditation" is what most meditation techniques attempt to reveal....yet there is only ONE entry point.....NOW!

    So each technique with step one, two, three...seem to take you in a never ending cycle of trying to get there(BEING at peace).

    Eckhart Tolle describes "natural mediation" or "BEING" as an awareness of natural as a tree feeling its are rooted and alive....just surrender to feeling IT....not thinking about IT...or waiting for IT.

    Please also check out Integral Naked info and resources on BIGMIND*.  BIGMIND will help you relate with all the chatter in your head in a non-resistant and integrating way.

    You cannot tame the mind.  The mind is wild! But, the mind can be free as your own awareness.


    A little more food for thought on how the cycles of fear are linked to beliefs...

    from Deepak Chopra's THE BOOK OF SECRETS*:

    "So let's go deeper into the link between suffering and unreality.

    The way we forget the peace and clarity of  "I am" can be broken down into five aspects. In Sanskrit these are called the five kleshas, the root causes of every form of suffering.

    1. Not knowing what is real

    2. Grasping and clinging to the unreal

    3. Being afraid of the unreal and recoiling from it

    4. Identifying with an imaginary self

    5. Fear of death

    Right now you and I are doing one of these five things, although we began so long ago that the process is ingrained.  The five kleshas are arranged in a cascade.  Once you stop knowing what is real (first klesha), the others fall into place automatically.  This means that for most people only the end of the line-fear of death- is a conscious experience; therefore, we must begin there and go back up the ladder." 

    source: p.73 THE BOOK OF SECRETS: Unlocking the Hidden Dimensions of Your Life by Deepak Chopra.....quote from back cover:

    " The Book of Secrets is the finest and most profound of Deepak Chopra's books to date.  Want the answers to the secrets of life? Let me recommend that you start right here."

    -Ken Wilber


    Incidentally, Deepak Chopra wrote THE BOOK OF SECRETS after his own father's physical passing.





    blessings as your journey unfolds,


    “Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.” ~Mark Twain
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  •  10-10-2007, 6:57 PM 29789 in reply to 29759

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    interesting that u would say that u are easily disgusted by people .. and that u feel lonely and don't know how u fit in

    could there be a link between these two ? that might be something interesting to explore 

    how would u respond to a statement such as: everybody is beautiful in their own way ? what happens within u as u read those words ?




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  •  10-10-2007, 7:43 PM 29793 in reply to 29693

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    Hi G-

    I find it is easy for me to relate to what you are going through. But - i'm not going to spend any time psycho-analyzing what you write, or interjecting my own meaning into your experiences. My only advice is this: get involved in a powerful community of people who will motivate you to confront and dissolve all the barriers that are holding you back from living a life that empowers and inspires you. The one I have been personally involved in for over a year now is Landmark Education - they are extremely effective and organized, and they have offices across the world and one in Tel-Aviv. It is NOT group therapy and it is NOT a passive seminar. It is ontological work in the area of your life - so naturally it can be frightening because you are not encouraged to just sit back and merely "talk about" your life. I have had personal breakthroughs doing this work that I never believed possible. If you engage in the work committed to settling for nothing less that what you truly know is possible, and you work through whatever comes up for you without running away, then I personally promise you that you will cause the breakthrough you are looking for and it will blow your freaking socks off.

    Just my two-cents. Go take the Landmark Forum (costs about $400), and then take the Advanced Course immediately after:


    "Like the legendary Ko-ko bird, we follow our own tail around in ever-narrowing circles, but unlike that mythic bird we never complete the process by flying up our own rectums and disappearing."
    -Robert Anton Wilson
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  •  10-13-2007, 5:17 AM 29909 in reply to 29793

    • Lucien is not online. Last active: 10-15-2007, 6:12 AM Lucien
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    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    Hi there G,

    I don't have any answers.  I just wanted to say that I have been thinking about you lately after reading your post.  I hope things are getting better. 

    In my opinion, Sprit is an experience junkie.  You are certainly having a wild ride in your life.  Spirit is likely very thankful for the trip you are on.  I hope you can relax and enjoy it... regardless.  If life were an amusement park, I'd say you're on the haunted house roller coaster ride, or maybe "Mr. G's Wild Ride".  Pretty scary, huh?

    Hang in there, Mr. G.  You aren't alone.

    Smile [:)]



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  •  10-14-2007, 11:31 AM 29994 in reply to 29909

    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    Ok, I think you all deserve personalized replies and anything else would be less than integral Smile [:)].

    I have listened to BigMind and it did help me formulate a series of about 10 questions I can ask each voice I choose to focus on. It did help me, but it is quite a task to perdorm it in a comprehensive manner, which is my preference, to really 'get' what a certain voice has to offer me or tell me.
    So, it becomes really about a certain courage I need to feel before speaking with a voice in order to deconstruct it, so to speak.

    re Tolle's techniques, I find myself less attracted to these (maybe it has to do with being male Devil [6]), mainly because I find myself impatient without further guidance. ravenhack23's post regarding the "Effortlessly Arising" meditation, however, seems just the ticket...

    I have Chopra's book, but I am having a difficult time really absorbing these teaching. I mean, sometimes they seems just words, with difficulty to grasp it.

    it is difficult and challanging at times to really communicate the complexities of these issues.
    Its not a case that either I am having problems with people OR that they really exhibit pathological behaviour.
    I believe the truth would include both. The society here has a pathological Blue (Law\Order) strike to it, as far as I can tell. People allow themselves to express intense anger quite frequently, often in the form of questioning the legitimacy of others, in ways that at times are quite amazing.
    For example: Last night I cross the road, on a zebra walk, where the approaching car (which had to stop in order for me to complete my cross) stopped, and the driver actually shouted at me, why did I cross the road if I saw he was approaching (the exact opposite of this case would have some logic).
    As KW said, in the absolute sense of reality, everything is sacred ('ground of being'). But from a relative ethics point of view, there are scales of values and distinctions of imbalances.

    livingegg- I will consider it, but researching the web [mainly for local, hebrew websites] I did not see enough positive remarks on this method\event to convince me to try it. Sorry.

    many thanks. Is that a hamster in your avatar picture?

    The major issue for me is still really finding a path- as in moving towards an occupation, in the broad sense, and whereabouts it would be.
    I know some (few) have a sort of inherent motivation, as in "they've always wanted to to be a...". Yet many others do not belong to this category. The point is, that a very conscious decision of "yes, that's waht I will do" [in life] always missed the point, its always artificial in a way... I, very much want to create the 'organic' system from which a path would emerge somewhat naturally, but this hasn't worked for me really. I've experinces too many losses, and am far too intelligent to pickup the odd day\office job..


    p.s. new people are welcomed to reply..

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  •  10-14-2007, 6:01 PM 30009 in reply to 29994

    • Lucien is not online. Last active: 10-15-2007, 6:12 AM Lucien
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    Re: Please help me!! am so desperate

    Actually, "Doc" is a Ginea Pig.  But don't tell him that.  He thinks he's Arthur Dent.  Wink [;)]

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  •  10-14-2007, 7:29 PM 30011 in reply to 29693

    • Alanvt is not online. Last active: 11-28-2007, 5:11 PM Alanvt
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    Wink [;)] Re: Please help me!! am quite desperate

    Hello g


    Your pain is very familiar to me.  What worked/works for me is allowing the pain under the pain of the daily reality to surface and then to feel the pain.  Sounds like fun, huh Wink [;)]  I went through years of confusion and pain and was helped immensely by the work of Alice Miller and more powerfully by the application of her ideas in a self therapy that is articulated by Ingeborg Bosch.  Here is a description from her site:


    Past Reality Integration® therapy is based on that we, as adults, often perceive the world through the defence mechanisms that we have developed as children. These defence mechanisms see to it that we do not have to feel the pain which was inflicted upon us as children. However these defence mechanisms is exactly what makes us, as adults; suffer the most as they give a distorted view of our perceptions of the present reality. Our problems in the present are, but are also caused by: fear, dejection, anger, stress and lack of true contact with other people.

    The aim of PRI is to help us work towards becoming aware of the destructive actions of these defence mechanisms, to stop the defence and subsequently break them down or dismantle them.
    Behind our defences hides the old pain which we have had to repress as a child because allowing ourselves to feel it at that time would have been so painful that we would have not been able to endure it. The situation of the child that we were differed greatly from the situation of the adult that we are now: we were small, dependent and at the mercy of others for the care, love, warmth and understanding that we needed. We had no choice in this: if our parents did not give us what we needed, there was no way out, we could not go away and find other parents.
    Moreover young children have no awareness of time. This means that a situation with lack of love, insufficient amount of touch and comforting in times that we were distressed seemed, to the child we were, last endlessly without a prospect of change.

    Through dismantling the defence and admitting the old pain we can see and feel the old pain for what it is: old, not belonging in the present but to the child we were still very painful and life threatening.
    Deep inside and throughout we realise then that it is not necessary any more to defend ourselves against these feelings through all sorts of defence mechanisms. This was in the past, and the past is gone. We are adults now and not dependent any more on one or two people responsible for fulfilling our basic physical and emotional needs. As adults we now have the ability to fulfil our own needs. We always have a choice now and we have awareness of time, matters that the child we were had no grasp of. Therefore, if it had not developed defence mechanisms, in many cases the child we were would have been exposed to unbearable pain.

    The aim of PRI therapy isn’t to feel the old pain in the (false) hope we can do some work on it in order for it to go away. The aim of a PRI therapy is to live our lives increasingly free of defences. Also then when a defence is being activated, we can recognize these ourselves and can dismantle it more effectively, with accelerating speed, so that we can eliminate the destructive effect of it in our daily lives. Then we can experience life for what it actually is: mostly surprisingly unburdened.


    I like you tried traditional types of therapy, with very limited results.   I am developing work to help people learn this natural process of allowing your body to let go of the past pain with the help of spiritual practices.  What I believe happens is your brain gets "rewired" and you are able to perceive reality more clearly and live with more true freedom and peace.    I hope this helps !!


    Take Care,



    The most courageous thing we will ever do is to bear humbly the mystery of our own reality.

    -- Richard Rohr

    The purpose of Freedom is to enable us to choose what we already are in the depths of our being.

    -- Bob Godwin
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  •  10-15-2007, 11:07 PM 30079 in reply to 30011

    Re: Please help me!! am quite desperate

    I would love to hear how this method of therapy has helped you.
    What is the process\journey it has guided you through?
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