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Re: Comments on Integral Spirituality - Ch. 4: States and Stages

  •  07-20-2006, 11:35 AM

    • REddieBana is not online. Last active: 09-06-2006, 2:34 PM REddieBana
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    Re: Comments on Integral Spirituality - Ch. 4: States and Stages

    (A short note just to say that it’s my first post…ever. Be kind to me please. Just one more favour: don’t pay attention to my English mistakes. I’m still developing that particularly, but important, line of development…Embarrassed [:$]).

     

    This topic represents to me the single most complex thing that is occupying my mind for the most part of my days now. The Gordian knot(s) image never has been better felt in my 1st person experience. I’m gonna to mixture my thoughts and my doubts here, so, when I use all those affirmative sentences, they are nothing more than “draft thoughts” reflecting, above all, my doubts, questions and all my thinking process about this wonderful integral theory that is, simply, the best thing I ever known in my 25 year life’s journey. (If, by any chance, you are reading this…Thank you Ken…from the very bottom of my heart…)

     

    When I think of this interaction of zone 1 and zone 2 methodologies and particularly regarding state-stages and structure-stages I think I found for me a useful foundational thought (if it is right): When we talk about structure-stages we are not only talking about “3rd-person descriptions of various 1st-person realities” (Ken’s words) but we are also referring to rigid stages of development from one particular state – the gross realm.

     

    When we use zone 1 contemplative methodology, the state-stages tends to be very fluid, in which we could have, for instance, peak experiences (i.e. experiences at a higher state-stage skipping for quick moments lower state-stages of development); however the structure-stages develops in a fairly rigid and stable way (where it’s impossible to skip any stage in the process, contrary to the state-stages), in my opinion, because we are dealing here with the gross realm, the state from which the most part of the “action” in the relative world takes place, where by its characteristics (structural characteristics) the development follows with discrete levels or rungs. Just like with a house construction (let’s say Ken’s loft…J) – It’s not possible to start or to jump for the roof construction…before the other lower construction phases.  

     

    Again, the gross realm or simply the body-mind normally develops in a fairly stable way (discrete or rung development, like the steps of a ladder). When we have peak experiences using zone 1 contemplative methodologies we jump states or simply go through the states (if we trained more we can follow a state-stages development mastering better and better the various states from gross to nondual); but we can’t have peak experiences in the gross realm, or simply we can’t jump stages, when we talk about structure-stages. We can say that in the relative world adventure (structure-stages) this is not possible, contrary to the absolute world journey (state-stages).

     

    Thus, we have this equipment (the particularly structure-stage that we have in the gross realm) from which we interpret the various states-stages experiences using whatever zone 1 contemplative methodology. This “gross equipment” has a body, has a brain, has a mind, has memories, has a culture, has a socio-economic environment, etc; that is this gross equipment is an AQAL affair in every way. What I am now, what level of this structural development I happen to be in (in whatever line of development) is certainly a four quadrants output. So when we address the personal interpretation issue (or of a given community) of all kinds of spiritual paths, the interpretation itself is the result of a particular AQAL mixture that shapes the gross equipment of a given human being.

     

    If I may, The Dalai Lama certainly is one of the best master regarding state-stages development, but in the relative world (in the gross world) he has a particular AQAL mixture that “puts” his gross equipment at a given structure stage (than follows a particular structural development) . His Holiness will therefore interpret and express his entire state-stages path and all of his realities/perspectives from that particular structural level.

     

     

    Much love for all of you,

    Ivo     


    Like a tear in all we know
    Once dissolved we are free to grow
    What is human, what is more?
    I\'ll answer this when I get home

    Eddie Vedder in "Severed Hand"
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