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Is The Integral Approach Possible For My 17-Year Old Southern Baptist Son?

Last post 10-30-2007, 8:15 AM by charlesb. 4 replies.
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  •  06-05-2007, 5:32 AM 24002

    • barbiplease is not online. Last active: 01-19-2008, 5:07 AM barbiplease
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    Is The Integral Approach Possible For My 17-Year Old Southern Baptist Son?

    My analysis of Sermon Notes

    Hello,

    I am from a Buddhist traditional background although I am no longer a practicing Buddhist, and would simply define myself as Conscious Spirit. My 17-Year old son, on the other hand--has been raised by his paternal grandparents and for the past two years has become increasingly devoted and passionate towards his religion of Southern Baptist.

    I am trying to find ways to establish a common ground for us to begin having a more Spiritual connection. The only time that he has open to see me is for me to attend his church with him on Sunday Mornings during their main morning services. Because he attends three or more times per week, and, additionally, I am beginning to notice to my dismay--has virtually replaced his entire original very eclectic musical collection to a genre of music called Christian and Praise, I felt that I should somehow be a part of that and acquaint myself with his teachings.

    So although this weekly "practice" of mine was to find Integration on some level between my son's faith and my own being as that of Conscious Spirit, I have discovered after looking more intensely into the Sermon Notes for the actual message being told that it is something that is appallingly different from its more superficial one that is taken away by the congregation, which I had thought to be a form of "Love Jesus" or "Love God!", "I Love God, hallelujiah!"--which in and of itself is benign and possibly capable of Integration with my own Spirituality. But now after doing the research (on link) to understand the core of their messages, I feel that it is something that is harmful to my son, yet nothing I can do about it.

    I suppose I need to know how to deal with this for me.

    Thank you,

    barbiplease
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  •  06-05-2007, 11:18 AM 24020 in reply to 24002

    Re: Is The Integral Approach Possible For My 17-Year Old Southern Baptist Son?

    Great Topic!  I was raised charismatic Christian... which is similar to soutern baptist. 

    The Integral Perspective honors many things that previous memes (especially green) reject.  These are the topics that can establish common ground.  For instance the spiritual realm of existance is taken to be an ontological reality (not a mere fantasy realm).  Im not taking into account post-metaphysics... but you have to be realistic about establishing common ground.  This type of christianity is so much about practical Love.  Experiences of luminosity, grace, or insight are very common during services.. (state experiences).  Those pastors and preachers are pushing plenty of psychic energy with their faith and spoken word.  These experiences are then encouraged to increase one's ability to serve and offer love.  I have found much common ground with extended family by critiquing post-modernism.  Post-modernism really does lead to a morally bankrupt, paralysized condition in which a person cannot judge right from wrong.  This judgement of right and wrong is actually quite similar, albiet a simple version, to Integral's equation of greatest depth and span.

    The main point of difficulty is that any conversation about common ground will lead naturally to a discussion of things that threaten or challenge their world view.  The example of politics is a HUGE conflict area.  Likely the pastor will defend tooth and nail that homosexuals are 'In Sin'.  And your son may adopt these political views because they are required to be an accepted member of the community.  As a parent you need to be skillful about supporting your son and determining how deep you want to take the questioning.  Most young people are not truely blue (amber) in their self development.  They are usually adopting blue values because the community is so supportive, loving, filled with subtle level energy, etc.

    have fun!

    Jason Digges
    Video Production Manager
    Integral Institute

    Jason Digges
    audio video designer
    integral institute
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  •  06-06-2007, 4:24 PM 24096 in reply to 24020

    • barbiplease is not online. Last active: 01-19-2008, 5:07 AM barbiplease
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    Re: Is The Integral Approach Possible For My 17-Year Old Southern Baptist Son?

    A:

    I will tell you what "I" mean by Spiritual vs. what is being taught to my son.  My heart is broken.

    I will have to do some research to map out where I am precisely on the overall meme pool.  I have been using the Gebserian model of space-Time constituencies as my construct for location of Conscious Spirit as that which is operating above the Mental-Perspectival-3 Dimensional level or structure to emergence of Conscious Spirit, which does not occur according to Gebser in The Ever-Present Origin until the emergence of Spiritual-Aperspectival-4 Dimensional Structure of Consciousness.

    When you are Time-free you aree essentially space-free and mentally freed from spatiality and Time, you may attain a Spiritual Apprehension and respond to it appropriately and allow it have Transformative power..  If, on the other hand, you are Time-free and space-free and mentally freed from spatiality and Time, but not quite mentally freed from constraints of mental disability, and have a  Spiritual Apprehension concerning the Spiritual constraints and shackles being placed upon your son by outside forces that are squarely in the traditional "Blue" meme of "mythic membership" (in fact, my son as just informed me that I,
    a half-Japanese, 1/4 Anglo, and 1/4 German, am in fact descended from either Abraham or some other Biblical person from the Old Testament who is the common ancestor to all humans at approximately 5,000-6,000 years ago)  and there is nothing you can do about it, meanwhile, excecpt to sit by and watch helplessly as he continues to be indoctrinated into cold, hard political ideology and religion-- it is possible to have a temporary Psychotic breakdown, when being in isolation and on day three of fasting from losing appetite over what is actually being endorsed over there, and in the course of researching their actual message for the first time and having all the correct tools on hand to do so.  Is there a different or more appropriate forum for discussing this kind of issue, or is it here?
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  •  10-29-2007, 10:25 PM 30908 in reply to 24002

    • seanjon44 is not online. Last active: 12-26-2007, 6:44 PM seanjon44
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    Re: Is The Integral Approach Possible For My 17-Year Old Southern Baptist Son?

    Hi

    Probably the best piece of advice anybody can give you is to just talk to him like a normal human being, like he is your son. So what if he is under such influences as the blue-meme. Bestoe blessings upon him as any father should and when he is ready he will come around. I am sure, after all, that he can think for himself.

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  •  10-30-2007, 8:15 AM 30930 in reply to 30908

    Re: Is The Integral Approach Possible For My 17-Year Old Southern Baptist Son?

    Hi Seanjon,

     

    Welcome! It's interesting to see an old thread revived. Intergenerational communication is a tricky business, and having a familial connection from one generation to the next does not necessarily make things any easier.

     

    But what really caught my interest in your post was what appears to be a contradiction between two statements; 1). So what if he is under such influences as the blue-meme. And 2); I am sure, after all, that he can think for himself.

     

    The problem with being under the influence of a meme, particularly one on the first-tier, is that it's difficult to know that this in fact is happening; mostly folks in such situations are actually under the impression that they are thinking for themselves; and have not even an inkling of the notion that something larger may be speaking through them.

     

    Maybe the time will come around when a person outgrows a given meme; but maybe not. There is no guarantee that such a growth or development will occur even when one is actively working on the situation.

     

    Even a high level of cognitive development may not be sufficient to the task. I'm thinking about my 27-year-old grandson, a very bright fellow, bright enough in fact to get himself a full scholarship from Stanford from which he is a recent graduate. Alas along the way he got infected by what i call the herpes-like fundamentalist virus; and having been infected with it myself at an early age i can attest to the fact that it's not so easy to escape its nefarious effects.

     

    Warmly,

     

    Charles

    88W18'28" 41N58'02"

     

     

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