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Feedback on Holosync

Last post 10-18-2007, 11:13 AM by johndupuy. 64 replies.
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  •  07-02-2007, 1:01 PM 25141 in reply to 24751

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    livingegg:
    For anyone that has read my earlier post regarding the problems with ringing ears that I developed after using holosync, know that I started again recently, using it to fall asleep at night. It has been nearly a year since my ear ringing finally died down. Well, after using holosync again for a month, the ringing started up again. Not at first, but by the end of a month it was as bad as it's ever been. Fax that. Guess it's not for me. Too bad :(

    I have been using Holosync for a while now. I love it. I will say that it is powerful enough to be frightening at times. I have had tinnitus for many years (ringing in the ears) at first it Holosync seemed to make it worse. I asked Centerpointe support about it and they encouraged me not to worry about it. That it could make it SEEM to get worse for a while, but eventually that that sensation would go away as my threshold for the stimulus increased. They didn't say it would cure the tinnitus, but that I might find after awhile that I was bothered less by the same ringing. That is exactly what has happened.

    It is quite possible that what you are experiencing is a perfectly normal and expected, you just need to ride it out. For the reasons Pelle pointed out in an earlier post.

    Another thing I that seems important to point out here is that Bill Harris does strongly recommend sitting upright and "meditating" with the technology - for "best results." I suspect that there is probably a really good reason for that. They do tell people it is ok to lay down while doing it, but that it is not optimal. And they definitely don't recommend using it as something to fall asleep with. From my own experience, I have tried using it while laying down and felt very uncomfortable with it. It was like, something very important going on inside my mind and I was not paying attention. It felt dangerous, and not very responsible somehow. I mean, that is just me, it's how I felt when I tried using holosync while laying down. (Please don't flame me, I know other people have great success meditating with holosync while laying down.)

    Something else to point out is that Bill Harris says, in as many ways as he can figure out to say it, that the real value of Holosync is that it significantly increases one's ability to be the witness. He especially talks about developing increased ability to notice what one is doing inside one's own internal processes. The point being, Holosync is not a tool to help you fall asleep, but a tool to help you wake up! It doesn’t seem surprising that you’re experience is somewhat weird and uncomfortable if you are using it to fall asleep with – it can be weird and uncomfortable when you are alert and watching it! (if it isn’t weird and uncomfortable at times, it is waking up, or is it relaxation?)

    - Don

  •  07-03-2007, 9:13 AM 25174 in reply to 25141

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

     I found the cost of Holosync absolutely ridiculous. I knew that I wanted to try the underlying technology, though. I recently purchased Neuro-Programmer 2 after researching entrainment software for several hours online. I haven't started using it yet; however, I plan to burn a couple CDs this week. After all of the positive feedback that I've read in this thread (coming back to the Multiplex forum after many months spent exclusively at Zaadz), my optimism about the potential power of this tool reinforces the drive towards exploration. I'm making a mental note to post some feedback after a month or so.
    To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. - E.E.Cummings
  •  07-03-2007, 1:52 PM 25188 in reply to 25174

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Egg: I understand your decision to quit, since you get such a prominent symptom after using Holosync, but... it still is very possible that you could push through it using Holosync and that there is something that needs "clearing out".
    Only you can know what the right thing to do is.


    Colin: Neuro-programmer 2 is pretty cool, I tried it for free for 15 days. It does not however have the progressive lowering of carrier frequencies built in, which is the key feature of Holosync and that allows continous growth level after level. To be fair though, it is possible to design your own program with progressively lower carrier frequencies using NP2, but you will need a lot of knowledge to do this correctly. A member of my Holosync pod has tried this and is apparently happy with it. For most consumers though, I would say that Holosync is the best choice even though it is fairly expensive. IMHO it is not even that expensive when you factor in the growth you get.


    peace
    Pelle

    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
  •  07-05-2007, 9:33 AM 25283 in reply to 25188

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Pelle,

    Thanks for sharing your experience. I have heard differing perspectives, all claiming to be based on research, about the efficacy of binaural beats and progressively lower carrier frequencies versus other entrainment modes. I don't have the time to look at all the research myself. So...I decided to try a customizable interface at a low entry fee to explore entrainment.

    The cost of Holosync is actually prohibitive for many people, myself included at this point (supporting a family while my wife attends graduate school). Perhaps I'll check it out when the funds are more freely flowing.


    To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. - E.E.Cummings
  •  07-05-2007, 8:54 PM 25312 in reply to 25283

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Thank you, Colin, and the rest of you for your info - I think I'll look seriously at the holosync website and see if I'm willing to bite the bullet. Colin, I've sent you a PM.

    Pelle does make a good point for me about being realistic about willingness, energy and tehno-capability to customize something less expensive - I think I don't have some of those Smile [:)].

    Ambo Suno
  •  07-06-2007, 9:43 AM 25336 in reply to 25312

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Hi Ambo! FYI, I responded to your PM.

    One thing is clear: entrainment technology is a powerful tool!


    To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. - E.E.Cummings
  •  07-06-2007, 10:09 AM 25337 in reply to 25188

    • edison is not online. Last active: 03-15-2008, 6:25 AM edison
    • Top 75 Contributor
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    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    A couple of observations from my experience-

    I'm now at Purification 1- this is the only level I experienced much "turbulence", mostly vivid dreams and a bit of restlessness while listening.

    I also sit zazen daily (without Holosync).  When I get settled I have the experience of  a high pitched ringing, not "in my ears", but seemingly from the middle of my skull!  My head hasn't exploded (yet), so I try to remain in non-seeking, letting whatever arise and fall away.

    I started up Holosync with the rest of my ILP, therefore it's difficult to specifically pin causative positive effects on it.  But in general, I'd say that it's as value priced.  That doesn't mean affordable, just that I feel I get my money's worth out of it.

    I've always been curious about the frequency range for the "higher" Holosync levels seems to match the frequency range for sonic induction for Shammanic journeying. (at least according to Harner's book.)  If so, I guess this would be a technology for inducing subtle state (only).  Does that match folk's understanding/experience here?

     

    Brian

  •  07-06-2007, 1:29 PM 25351 in reply to 25337

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Brian, you wrote: I've always been curious about the frequency range for the "higher" Holosync levels seems to match the frequency range for sonic induction for Shammanic journeying. (at least according to Harner's book.)  If so, I guess this would be a technology for inducing subtle state (only).  Does that match folk's understanding/experience here?

    My understanding is that lucid subtle state experiences can be induced using entrainment technology. I haven't yet experienced that using this technology; however, I have experienced it using other means, so I believe that it's possible.


    To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. - E.E.Cummings
  •  07-06-2007, 4:16 PM 25363 in reply to 25337

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    edison:

    I've always been curious about the frequency range for the "higher" Holosync levels seems to match the frequency range for sonic induction for Shammanic journeying. (at least according to Harner's book.)  If so, I guess this would be a technology for inducing subtle state (only).  Does that match folk's understanding/experience here?

     


    Hi Brian,

    Holosync takes you from alpha brainwaves, through theta, and all the way down to delta/sub-delta. Theta corresponds to subtle states, and delta corresponds to causal states - so for most of the time your brain is immersed in a state the corresponds to causal (delta).

    When discussing frequencies it's important to distinguish between the binaural frequency and the carrier frequencies. The binaural frequencies correspond to alpha, theta and delta, ie starting at 12ish and going all the way down to 0.3 hz. The carrier frequencies OTOH, change for each level, with the general trend being a lowering of the carrier frequency.

    I don't know what the frequency range is for sonic induction of Shamanic journeying. Do you have some rough numbers there?


    Pelle

    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
  •  07-09-2007, 8:32 AM 25466 in reply to 25363

    • edison is not online. Last active: 03-15-2008, 6:25 AM edison
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-03-2006
    • Washington DC metro area
    • Posts 78
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    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Hi Pelle,

         My memory (it has been a few years) that the drumming frequency is in the 1- 3 Hz range.  I remember a Shammanic induction CD that had (my estimate) drum beats at about 90 beats per minute or 1.5 Hz.  (Anybody who might have access to Michael Harner's Way of the Shaman is welcome to correct me please!)    I am a bit curious about carrier vs. beat frequency.   Drum beats are sound impulses that probably have many, many frequency components, but repeat at a frequency of 1-3 Hz.  I don't think I've ever listened to a pure sine wave at 1-5 Hz, I don't know if I could detect the amplitude fluctuations or not (increasing and decreasing loudness)  I do know listening to a tuning fork at moderate frequencies (around 400 Hz), I can't detect any variations, it just sounds like a pure tone.   I suspect that the beat frequency or biaural frequency is more similar to "impulses" like drum beats in order to create entrained brain waves.  I was under the impression that the biaural technology was comfort trick so one wouldn't be annoyed by listening to a mentranome for an hour.  I would also say there seems to be some congruence to EMDR ((Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing), which is used in pyschological therapy to help reduce sensitivities to triggers, traumas, scripts.  In EMDR, usually one watches lights or a finger moving, etc and sometimes it's accompanied by a sound, and the frequency range seems to be in the .75-2 ish Hz range.  My experience is that EMDR  Shammanic journeying were very similar, and the dreams I have had during "turbulent" periods with Holosync to be similar as well.  I really don't have anything more than this ancedotal evidence to tie all this stuff together, but I do find it suggestive.

     

    Brian

  •  07-10-2007, 5:00 AM 25509 in reply to 25466

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Brian,

    I definitely think there are some principles that tie Holosync and EMDR together. The synchronization of the brain halves through watching/hearing a regular frequency would be one of them.

    Binaural beats work because there is a different frequency in each ear. For example you might have a carrier frequency of 410 Hz in one ear and 400 Hz in the other one, the resulting binaural frequency is then 10 Hz (the difference between the carrier frequencies). For some reason the brain starts entraining to the differency in frequency between the left and right ear, that is why binaural beats work so well for entrainment.


    Pelle

    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
  •  07-11-2007, 1:38 PM 25589 in reply to 3932

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

     

    Hi there

    I am a long term user of Holosync just fnished level 5 (purification L1) an I have a found it to be a very a useful tool to help me on a number of levels in daily practice.

    In particular concentration, learning ability, reflection, personal transformation and growth leading to enhanced awareness and intuitive abilities.  The main feeling I have is that I have become much more emotionally resilienta and am able to let go of conflict situations very quickly interestingly this results in experiencing less conflict in my life.

    I have been using this technology for about 6 years now.

    I also have to mention that when I first started using Holosync I experienced some very negative feedback as my ego was eager to progress through the series quickly I hammered it and it hurt in terms of massive amount of emotional upheaval.

    Warmest Regards

    Robert

  •  07-11-2007, 4:52 PM 25596 in reply to 25589

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    RobertWaghmare:

     

    I also have to mention that when I first started using Holosync I experienced some very negative feedback as my ego was eager to progress through the series quickly I hammered it and it hurt in terms of massive amount of emotional upheaval.




    Hi Robert,

    Welcome to these forums!

    I agree completely with what you say. Holosync is a very powerful tool and it will not hesitate to kick your ass if you don't use it responsibly.

    The benefits you describe are very similar to what I've experienced myself.


    peace
    Pelle

    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
  •  09-12-2007, 7:40 AM 28409 in reply to 25466

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    Hi Guys,
    Here is an excerpt from a post at Learning Stratigies' forum from someone who did some analysis of holosync disks. The link to the entire thread is:

    http://www.learningstrategies.com/forum/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000841-3.html

    Here's the part on frequencies:

    I've done a lot of research on the CDs, using Adobe Audition's analysis tools to determine exactly what the soundtracks were or were not made of

    I'll try and give the exact "recipe" for Holosync CDs.
    First I'll state what I've found to be inside those tracks,

    What’s in a Holosync soundtrack ?
    1) one sine wave in each ear. One is constant, the other varies in the dive tracks. In immersion tracks, they are both constant. (not present in the “floating” soundtracks);
    2) Raindrops (not present in the “floating” soundtracks);
    3) Glass Bells (only in Dive, not in the Immersion soundtracks);
    4) A peak in frequency at 15500 Hz, where the “Autofonix Silent Affirmations” are “modulated” (this is not present in AP, only in AL 1 and upward;
    5) Nothing else. Sorry folks, there’s no “secret something else” in the soundtracks, special technology or what, that would make it more effective than other BW soundtracks from other makers.

    Hey ! If there’s no “secret technology”, what makes the Holosync CDs so much more effective ?
    In my opinion :
    1) the use of the Dive before going into the “deep” meditation : it kind of “heats up and stretches the brain in preparation of the “exercise” it’s going to take;
    2) the raindrops. White or brown noise are known in BW literature for enhancing the effect of binaureal beats. But it’s a real pain to listen to ! The raindrop sound is a random sound that has the same effect of enhancing the binaureal beats, but with the added benefit of being relaxing to the ear, instead of irritating like the white or brown noise;
    3) the “revolutionary” Virtual Audio recording technology. It does make the whole listening less a strain on the ear.
    All in all, it’s just remarkably well engineered soundtracks that put no strain on the listener. Other BW soundtracks are clearly not as “polished”.

    What are the Binaureal Beats ?
    1) in Dive : panning from 10 to 2 Hz in the first 20 minutes, and staying constant at 2 Hz for the last 10 Minutes;
    2) In Immersion : 2 Hz, for ½ an hour;
    3) In Immersion 1.5 : unsurprisingly, 1.5 Hz, for ½ an hour;
    4) In Immersion 0.5 : 0.5 Hz, for ½ an hour;
    5) In Immersion 0.3 : 0.3 Hz, for ½ an hour;
    6) In Quietude (bonus CD in AP) : 10 Hz, for ½ an hour.
    7) In Oasis (bonus CD in AP) : 8 Hz, for ½ an hour.

    Here is the list of carrier frequencies
    In the Online Demo : 80Hz
    In Awakening Prologue : 140 Hz
    In the Quietude and Oasis CD : 80 Hz
    In Awakening Level 1 : 120 Hz
    In Awakening Level 2 : 100 Hz

    I'm currently on AL 2, so I have no real idea what the frequencies for lower levels are. I might post them when I receive the subsequent levels, if anyone is interested. I tend to think that Purification 1 uses 80Hz as a carrier frequency, but it’s only a guess, based on answers I’ve received from the Centerpointe staff regarding the relative “potency” of the Oasis and Quietude soundtracks compared to those of the levels of the program…


    Back to Mark--
    I know a little bit about audio stuff from audiophile days and college physics classes. One, there is a minimum frequency that an audio system can put out and a minimum frequency that you can hear. Brain wave frequencies are WAY below both, which is the whole point of the binaural beat. Average good hearing ends around 40-50 Hz. A non-dual state (UL) has an UR brain wave of .1 to 4 Hz. How do you get your brain going that low? Not with ordinary sound!

    The binaural beat works, sweeping your eyes back and forth can be done at that frequency, but it would be hard to start sweeping your eyes at a faster rate and working down. You could do percussion with drum beats (not the actual tones of the drum) or flashing lights at the requisite frequencies. In Europe, you can buy devices with electrodes you clip on your ears that entrain the brain just like holosync, but the FDA won't approve them for sale in the US. Someone once showed me a TIMS unit for pain control that she said had the off-lable use of brain entrainment (just the thing for triggering a kundillini episode).

    The whole issue with the good headphones at holosync level 4 is to make sure you've got a audio system that put out those carrier frequencies that are near the limit of typical consumer audio. I once hooked up a pair of good headphones to a signal generator to see what I could hear, and at the lowest frequencies, I could hear something, but in the end, concluded that what I was hearing was the drivers hitting their frames, not a very low frequency sound.

    The question is, "is there a percussion, flashing light, or eye sweeping system that is as effective at producing STAGE development as our well engineered binaural beat system?" I don't know of one. Terry Patten wrote a book on Mind-Brain Machines, but I've never read it. I'm sticking with Holosync.

    -Mark Evans
  •  09-12-2007, 8:20 AM 28411 in reply to 28409

    Re: Feedback on Holosync

    That's great information Mark, thanks!

    Pelle

    http://pelle.zaadz.com/
    http://malmointegral.blogspot.com/
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